What the Ping in BF3 really means.

CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 07:24 , edited 2011-12-10 07:25 by CreamOfSumyungiy
The Ping that you see in game is not your Ping to the server but is really your Ping to other players. Why is this? Well the hit reg that, everyone loves so dearly, is peer to peer, and is not controlled by the server. This would explain why your not able to see your own ping because you have no delay to your self. (Side note: This is also why those "cheaters' are able to knife you from their spawn. All because they control who they hit and not the server). The only why you are able to see your Ping to the server is by holding down Ctrl+Alt+s.

Make the hit reg controlled by the server! Don't know why this hasn't happen yet.

Here is an example of a game which has a hit reg controlled peer to peer and not by the server, and what hackers are able to do with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N-MafkJVMY [youtube.com]
daemonate
Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2011-12-10 07:27
What is your evidence/proof that their ping display is this and not like every other ping meter for the last 20 years?
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 07:28
daemonate said:
What is your evidence/proof that their ping display is this and not like every other ping meter for the last 20 years?

Go try it yourself with a buddy. Join a server and compair the ping on the score board to the ping that your getting with the command.
cuppycakegumdrop
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 07:35
So if someone tells me my Ping is 41, then it's not actually 41 for everyone, it's just 41 for that particularly dude...
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 07:45
cuppycakegumdrop said:
So if someone tells me my Ping is 41, then it's not actually 41 for everyone, it's just 41 for that particularly dude...

basically yes.
Mechpro
Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 07:46
Leave a reply...
TheScollop
AU Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2011-12-10 07:53
cuppycakegumdrop said:
So if someone tells me my Ping is 41, then it's not actually 41 for everyone, it's just 41 for that particularly dude...
To find a rough estimate of your ping, average out everyone elses ping, if the majority are over 200, you have a VERY bad ping :D
I bought premium for the DLC, that's it.
Moosah
AU Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2011-12-10 08:01
Why does it show me a ping on the server browser?
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 08:07 , edited 2011-12-10 08:47 by CreamOfSumyungiy
Moosah said:
Why does it show me a ping on the server browser?

that's your ping to the accual server
TheDiaperButtKid
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 08:10
Hit reg is controlled by the server. Not by the client.
They do this because client-side hit detection is impossible to protect from hacks.
Crappy internet, and/or server load is why hit-reg misses or just doesn't get to the server sometimes.
The more your ping fluctuates and/or connection loses packets, the more likely the server will screw up the back calculation for your shots.

and yes, that is your ping to the server. There is nothing that the client is sending to the other clients. It all goes to the server.
Why they just don't show you your ping is a mystery. I think they just bone-headed their code. (again)
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 08:13
TheDiaperButtKid said:
Hit reg is controlled by the server. Not by the client.
They do this because client-side hit detection is impossible to protect from hacks.
Crappy internet, and/or server load is why hit-reg misses or just doesn't get to the server sometimes.
The more your ping fluctuates and/or connection loses packets, the more likely the server will screw up the back calculation for your shots.

and yes, that is your ping to the server. There is nothing that the client is sending to the other clients. It all goes to the server.
Why they just don't show you your ping is a mystery. I think they just bone-headed their code. (again)

does this look like server side hit detection to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV9loU7dbzM [youtube.com]
TheDiaperButtKid
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 08:28
HAHA-I-JUST said:
TheDiaperButtKid said:
Hit reg is controlled by the server. Not by the client.
They do this because client-side hit detection is impossible to protect from hacks.
Crappy internet, and/or server load is why hit-reg misses or just doesn't get to the server sometimes.
The more your ping fluctuates and/or connection loses packets, the more likely the server will screw up the back calculation for your shots.

and yes, that is your ping to the server. There is nothing that the client is sending to the other clients. It all goes to the server.
Why they just don't show you your ping is a mystery. I think they just bone-headed their code. (again)
does this look like server side hit detection to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV9loU7dbzM [youtube.com]

It does, but why couldn't they do it with bullets just as easy? I think they did something else with the knife code.
If it were truly client-side hit detection, then no PunkBuster in the world could defeat it.
(You could always route the game packets to another PC that would just say that you hit everyone. Anti-cheat code could not do a thing about it.)
Knifekilla
US Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-12-10 08:36
i played on a server where you fall from the sky into tanks below, endlessly raped.
i have a video
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 08:40
TheDiaperButtKid said:
HAHA-I-JUST said:
TheDiaperButtKid said:
Hit reg is controlled by the server. Not by the client.
They do this because client-side hit detection is impossible to protect from hacks.
Crappy internet, and/or server load is why hit-reg misses or just doesn't get to the server sometimes.
The more your ping fluctuates and/or connection loses packets, the more likely the server will screw up the back calculation for your shots.

and yes, that is your ping to the server. There is nothing that the client is sending to the other clients. It all goes to the server.
Why they just don't show you your ping is a mystery. I think they just bone-headed their code. (again)
does this look like server side hit detection to you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV9loU7dbzM [youtube.com]
It does, but why couldn't they do it with bullets just as easy? I think they did something else with the knife code.
If it were truly client-side hit detection, then no PunkBuster in the world could defeat it.
(You could always route the game packets to another PC that would just say that you hit everyone. Anti-cheat code could not do a thing about it.)

So I guess this isn't client side hit detection too?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPXtFzscW-I&feature=related [youtube.com]
S7aIker
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-12-10 08:53
BF3 uses a hybrid hit detection (dev confirmed). Hits are detected client side but validated by the server which includes sanity checks and proximity validation (again dev confirmed ). The ping shown is most definate to the server, you can confirm this by simply asking several people in a server what your ping is (confirmed on our server several times with several people).

The knife hack validation failure was explained by demise99 as being "different code path". What ever that means but it seems that the knife is subject to less or different checks than the guns.

Read up on several of the points below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/n2oiy/we_need_someone_to_create_a_guide_for_the_new/ [reddit.com]
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 09:10 , edited 2011-12-10 09:10 by CreamOfSumyungiy
S7aIker said:
BF3 uses a hybrid hit detection (dev confirmed). Hits are detected client side but validated by the server which includes sanity checks and proximity validation (again dev confirmed ). The ping shown is most definate to the server, you can confirm this by simply asking several people in a server what your ping is (confirmed on our server several times with several people).

The knife hack validation failure was explained by demise99 as being "different code path". What ever that means but it seems that the knife is subject to less or different checks than the guns.

Read up on several of the points below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/n2oiy/we_need_someone_to_create_a_guide_for_the_new/ [reddit.com]

Awesome post! But still doesn't explain why your ping is missing in the score board. The only way that it wouldn't show your ping was if it was client to client. ( unless the coding for it was just that messed up like TheDiaperButtKid said.) What about the OPK video I posted. That's not client to client? Is there an explanation for this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPXtFzscW-I&feature=related [youtube.com]
S7aIker
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-12-10 09:15 , edited 2011-12-10 09:18 by S7aIker
To be honest mate I think its just a plain old bug. Although the lack of comment on it from DICE is indeed slightly odd.

With regards the vid, really not sure. Any client side detection system is open to attack. As you can see.
Sektor2
Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 09:16
HAHA-I-JUST said:
S7aIker said:
BF3 uses a hybrid hit detection (dev confirmed). Hits are detected client side but validated by the server which includes sanity checks and proximity validation (again dev confirmed ). The ping shown is most definate to the server, you can confirm this by simply asking several people in a server what your ping is (confirmed on our server several times with several people).

The knife hack validation failure was explained by demise99 as being "different code path". What ever that means but it seems that the knife is subject to less or different checks than the guns.

Read up on several of the points below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/n2oiy/we_need_someone_to_create_a_guide_for_the_new/ [reddit.com]
Awesome post! But still doesn't explain why your ping is missing in the score board. The only way that it wouldn't show your ping was if it was client to client. ( unless the coding for it was just that messed up like TheDiaperButtKid said.) What about the OPK video I posted. That's not client to client? Is there an explanation for this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPXtFzscW-I&feature=related [youtube.com]
As I understand it, you can view your own ping with Ctrl + Alt + S. If this is true, your own missing ping on the scoreboard is probably just a bug.
CreamOfSumyungiy
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 10:55
Sektor2 said:
HAHA-I-JUST said:
S7aIker said:
BF3 uses a hybrid hit detection (dev confirmed). Hits are detected client side but validated by the server which includes sanity checks and proximity validation (again dev confirmed ). The ping shown is most definate to the server, you can confirm this by simply asking several people in a server what your ping is (confirmed on our server several times with several people).

The knife hack validation failure was explained by demise99 as being "different code path". What ever that means but it seems that the knife is subject to less or different checks than the guns.

Read up on several of the points below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/n2oiy/we_need_someone_to_create_a_guide_for_the_new/ [reddit.com]
Awesome post! But still doesn't explain why your ping is missing in the score board. The only way that it wouldn't show your ping was if it was client to client. ( unless the coding for it was just that messed up like TheDiaperButtKid said.) What about the OPK video I posted. That's not client to client? Is there an explanation for this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPXtFzscW-I&feature=related [youtube.com]
As I understand it, you can view your own ping with Ctrl + Alt + S. If this is true, your own missing ping on the scoreboard is probably just a bug.

But the ctrl+alt+s on can sometimes be 100 more then what your ping is on the score board
Sektor2
Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-12-10 20:58 , edited 2011-12-10 21:02 by Sektor2
HAHA-I-JUST said:
Sektor2 said:
HAHA-I-JUST said:
S7aIker said:
BF3 uses a hybrid hit detection (dev confirmed). Hits are detected client side but validated by the server which includes sanity checks and proximity validation (again dev confirmed ). The ping shown is most definate to the server, you can confirm this by simply asking several people in a server what your ping is (confirmed on our server several times with several people).

The knife hack validation failure was explained by demise99 as being "different code path". What ever that means but it seems that the knife is subject to less or different checks than the guns. That is why in Bad Company 2, the server ping was 2 or 3 times lower than the actual in-game ping.

Read up on several of the points below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/n2oiy/we_need_someone_to_create_a_guide_for_the_new/ [reddit.com]
Awesome post! But still doesn't explain why your ping is missing in the score board. The only way that it wouldn't show your ping was if it was client to client. ( unless the coding for it was just that messed up like TheDiaperButtKid said.) What about the OPK video I posted. That's not client to client? Is there an explanation for this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPXtFzscW-I&feature=related [youtube.com]
As I understand it, you can view your own ping with Ctrl + Alt + S. If this is true, your own missing ping on the scoreboard is probably just a bug.
But the ctrl+alt+s on can sometimes be 100 more then what your ping is on the score board
Probably because it is the time that the actual game packets are taking to go from you to the server and back. The scoreboard ping is likely just regular IMCP packets, which are much smaller and therefore take less time.