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Are Jets Overpowered?

lIlLVLCAPlIl
CA Enlisted: 2011-12-07
2013-03-25 22:32
Remove below radar, add in above radar of heights over 150M, lel.
Treborlavok
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-03-26 00:11
Archangel990 said:
Oh, so if I stray into an airspace bubble with 420m radius, I HAVE to get shot down because some scrub can point in my general direction?

By your logic, simply being in range of any enemy on the ground means you have to get shot and die, and no skill should save you.


Keep ruining shooters, pls.


Its not ruining shooters by creating balance in a category of the game that is blatantly out of balance. Refer to the quote below for the constructive ideas that we/they should be thinking of.

ReallyBadRecon said:
Remove below radar, add in above radar of heights over 150M, lel.


exactly, something to make the jets stay in the air, not meters from the ground attack ground units. You can easily take down mobile ground vehicles from up in the air away from stinger/igla reach.

maybe extent the range of guided rocket to off set staying "Above radar". and make the stinger/igla range be just short off the above radar ground floor.
Archangel990
US Enlisted: 2011-10-30
2013-03-26 00:14 , edited 2013-03-26 00:17 by Archangel990
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Oh, so if I stray into an airspace bubble with 420m radius, I HAVE to get shot down because some scrub can point in my general direction?

By your logic, simply being in range of any enemy on the ground means you have to get shot and die, and no skill should save you.


Keep ruining shooters, pls.
Its not ruining shooters by creating balance in a category of the game that is blatantly out of balance. Refer to the quote below for the constructive ideas that we/they should be thinking of.

A highly skilled player being allowed to survive entire rounds because he took the time to become skilled at his role is blatantly out of balance?

That's like saying college graduates shouldn't be allowed to earn more money than non-college graduates because it's 'unbalanced' that someone who put in more effort than someone else deserves more benefits.

While you're on the anti-skill road, let's just give players with 4 or higher KD's 10% health, so that they can be 'balanced' to players that can't even go positive. They're more skilled, but they don't deserve to do better, right? It's only fair that noobs have a fair chance of killing them.
You're trying to find some kind of fault, aren't you? Good luck.
MayhemCanuck
CA Enlisted: 2012-01-07
2013-03-26 00:17
Jets are killers, are they overpowered....? No
PS3...Were gamers go to die.
JonneeZ
AU Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-03-26 00:21
Archangel990 said:
Our effectiveness also goes down exponentially with the number of lock on weapons on the map at any time. An ace can almost be useless if facing a combination of stingers, heatseeker jets, and heatseekering helicopters. It'll take us a few minutes to clear our areas in that situation, which is a lot of leeway for ground troops.
.

Lol that actually pretty much proves the OPs point. The fact that it can take a "combination" of 4-6 players to keep a singe good jet pilot quiet, not even guaranteed destroyed, is proof that jets are OP. And I love flying jets. So basically 1 good pilot has drawn 4-6 players' attention away from the ground game, less engies with RPGs to deal with tanks, and makes a greatly overproportional impact on the game.

As much as i like jets, I honestly wouldnt be greatly disappointed if they weren't in BF4 (though they will be).
I am anespeptic, pharismotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.
Treborlavok
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-03-26 00:21
Archangel990 said:
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Oh, so if I stray into an airspace bubble with 420m radius, I HAVE to get shot down because some scrub can point in my general direction?

By your logic, simply being in range of any enemy on the ground means you have to get shot and die, and no skill should save you.


Keep ruining shooters, pls.
Its not ruining shooters by creating balance in a category of the game that is blatantly out of balance. Refer to the quote below for the constructive ideas that we/they should be thinking of.
A highly skilled player being allowed to survive entire rounds because he took the time to become skilled at his role is blatantly out of balance?

That's like saying college graduates shouldn't be allowed to earn more money than non-college graduates because it's 'unbalanced' that someone who put in more effort than someone else deserves more benefits.

While you're on the anti-skill road, let's just give players with 4 or higher KD's 10% health, so that they can be 'balanced' to players that can't even go positive. They're more skilled, but they don't deserve to do better, right? It's only fair that noobs have a fair chance of killing them.


How about you take a breath and relax champ.

Someone who excels and has taken the time to practice and become great in a specific role is fine. Its the ability to use said role OUTSIDE of its in game role that creates the unbalance.
LtVerwolf
US Enlisted: 2011-11-30
2013-03-26 00:22
Archangel990 said:
We aren't impossible to take down, lol.

Just get a bit better in the jet yourself and handle your team's air superiority on your own.

No ace is invincible.

Our effectiveness also goes down exponentially with the number of lock on weapons on the map at any time. An ace can almost be useless if facing a combination of stingers, heatseeker jets, and heatseekering helicopters. It'll take us a few minutes to clear our areas in that situation, which is a lot of leeway for ground troops.



If you want to deal with an ace, essentially, use teamwork. Otherwise, you'll get smashed. That's how Battlefield works; not this ridiculous 'rock-paper-scissors' system that so many of you want.
Archangel990
US Enlisted: 2011-10-30
2013-03-26 00:22
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Oh, so if I stray into an airspace bubble with 420m radius, I HAVE to get shot down because some scrub can point in my general direction?

By your logic, simply being in range of any enemy on the ground means you have to get shot and die, and no skill should save you.


Keep ruining shooters, pls.
Its not ruining shooters by creating balance in a category of the game that is blatantly out of balance. Refer to the quote below for the constructive ideas that we/they should be thinking of.
A highly skilled player being allowed to survive entire rounds because he took the time to become skilled at his role is blatantly out of balance?

That's like saying college graduates shouldn't be allowed to earn more money than non-college graduates because it's 'unbalanced' that someone who put in more effort than someone else deserves more benefits.

While you're on the anti-skill road, let's just give players with 4 or higher KD's 10% health, so that they can be 'balanced' to players that can't even go positive. They're more skilled, but they don't deserve to do better, right? It's only fair that noobs have a fair chance of killing them.
How about you take a breath and relax champ.

Someone who excels and has taken the time to practice and become great in a specific role is fine. Its the ability to use said role OUTSIDE of its in game role that creates the unbalance.

Please, tell me what the role of the jets in BF3 is.
You're trying to find some kind of fault, aren't you? Good luck.
i_ivanof
BG Enlisted: 2011-12-12
2013-03-26 00:26 , edited 2013-03-26 00:37 by i_ivanof
Jets are overpowered, once you get a person who knows everything about them and knows everything to do in them

if they have that much skill they deserve the kills

you just fucking suck, like you said it yourself,

jets are supposed to be on the top of the food chain, and even though they are hundreds of times less useful than they are in real life, they STILL dominate the battlefield. It is perfectly balanced the way it if and if you suck too much to accept it then you should go play another game, i'm not even an ace, i';m more of the "pubstomper" category, but i can tell that if you cannot get in a jet and kill me, you do not deserve to
proud founder and leader of the AN-94 MASTER RACE
dandroid_of_LA
MX Enlisted: 2012-04-29
2013-03-26 00:32
JaFool1 said:
So because someone has taken the time to master a vehicle and you cannot destroy them with your one shot lock on skill cannon, they should be removed from the game completely?
SVD needs a buff http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625517242966/
Treborlavok
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-03-26 00:46
Archangel990 said:
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Oh, so if I stray into an airspace bubble with 420m radius, I HAVE to get shot down because some scrub can point in my general direction?

By your logic, simply being in range of any enemy on the ground means you have to get shot and die, and no skill should save you.


Keep ruining shooters, pls.
Its not ruining shooters by creating balance in a category of the game that is blatantly out of balance. Refer to the quote below for the constructive ideas that we/they should be thinking of.
A highly skilled player being allowed to survive entire rounds because he took the time to become skilled at his role is blatantly out of balance?

That's like saying college graduates shouldn't be allowed to earn more money than non-college graduates because it's 'unbalanced' that someone who put in more effort than someone else deserves more benefits.

While you're on the anti-skill road, let's just give players with 4 or higher KD's 10% health, so that they can be 'balanced' to players that can't even go positive. They're more skilled, but they don't deserve to do better, right? It's only fair that noobs have a fair chance of killing them.
How about you take a breath and relax champ.

Someone who excels and has taken the time to practice and become great in a specific role is fine. Its the ability to use said role OUTSIDE of its in game role that creates the unbalance.
Please, tell me what the role of the jets in BF3 is.


To control the air by taking down choppers and jets. and taking down tanks from a distance.

But obviously that isnt enough for some people. They feel they should be able to take on entire teams in their jet and live because, "im in a jet and i put the time in to become an ace pilot so i should get to kill anyone and everything no matter what."

like i said, if your in a jet and you get too close to the ground you SHOULD be afraid your GOING to get shot down. But as it is now, jets have nothing to fear. just get below radar and boost to get out of range. Jets are and should be powerful. but it shouldnt take an entire squad to take down 1 jet pilot from the ground. Do the math and then think about the balance in the game... someone else said it too. 2 ace pilots on the same team, respectfully takes roughly 2 squads working together to take them both down. Thats 8 ppl trying to take down 2 jets... while the rest of the enemy team is attacking on the ground leaving how many more members of your team to try and defend the ground...? Now tell me... how is that balance?

Theres amazing tank drivers/teams out there. but it doesnt take an entire squad to take them down, and it shouldnt. Tanks excel at their role to control the ground units and CAN be taken down. Jets on the other hand, excel at taking down air units AND ground/infantry units and have nothing to fear.
Archangel990
US Enlisted: 2011-10-30
2013-03-26 01:02 , edited 2013-03-26 01:08 by Archangel990
Treborlavok said:
To control the air by taking down choppers and jets. and taking down tanks from a distance.

But obviously that isnt enough for some people. They feel they should be able to take on entire teams in their jet and live because, "im in a jet and i put the time in to become an ace pilot so i should get to kill anyone and everything no matter what."

like i said, if your in a jet and you get too close to the ground you SHOULD be afraid your GOING to get shot down. But as it is now, jets have nothing to fear. just get below radar and boost to get out of range. Jets are and should be powerful. but it shouldnt take an entire squad to take down 1 jet pilot from the ground. Do the math and then think about the balance in the game... someone else said it too. 2 ace pilots on the same team, respectfully takes roughly 2 squads working together to take them both down. Thats 8 ppl trying to take down 2 jets... while the rest of the enemy team is attacking on the ground leaving how many more members of your team to try and defend the ground...? Now tell me... how is that balance?

Theres amazing tank drivers/teams out there. but it doesnt take an entire squad to take them down, and it shouldnt. Tanks excel at their role to control the ground units and CAN be taken down. Jets on the other hand, excel at taking down air units AND ground/infantry units and have nothing to fear.

Of course it isn't enough... we're good enough to keep pushing our envelopes. Jets have the highest skill-cap of anything in this game, but to compensate they also have the steepest learning curve. Evidence of that? Look up how many jet tutorials are on Youtube versus tutorials on any other aspect of BF3.


No, the role of jets in this game is not to simply control air and harass tanks at long distance. Jets are the rulers of the battlefield. Their role is to destroy whatever they can, at all times, so their team can win the game more easily. Why do you think DICE gave them the most powerful arsenal of anti-vehicle weapons in the entire game?


Also, it actually doesn't take an entire squad to take down jets. Not even close, pal. You know how many people it takes? One. Another jet pilot. And unless the enemy pilot is a crack-ace, it's very easy to take the jet out. What's the only requirement for such a thing? A bit of skill. But GOD NO. Any mention of that awful word makes you cringe, doesn't it?


By the way, taking nearly an entire team to take out two skilled players... how is that unique to jets? It really isn't unique to jets, since small numbers of players have carried their teams to victory in every single method possible over the course of this game's existence. From how you ignored that, it appears as though you simply reek of bias.


Lastly, I'd just like to point out the fact that you're basing all your boundless knowledge on the so-called 'invincibility' of good pilots on the fact that it takes you, literally, ten minutes to get a kill in either CQ jet. Where do your observations come from? How do you know how easy it is to survive in a jet while actually maximizing your attacking potential? I don't think you know how easy it is at all.



Bottom line: if you want balance, here it is: jet pilots cannot capture flags, so they are reliant upon the teammates they protect to do that for them. We cannot do whatever we want, because our role is not all-encompassing. That is what the rest of the team is for. Wait a sec... that smells like... teamwork? In Battlefield? *gasp*
You're trying to find some kind of fault, aren't you? Good luck.
XxDutchManxXJon
US Enlisted: 2011-11-25
2013-03-26 01:15
Archangel990 said:
Treborlavok said:
Archangel990 said:
Oh, so if I stray into an airspace bubble with 420m radius, I HAVE to get shot down because some scrub can point in my general direction?

By your logic, simply being in range of any enemy on the ground means you have to get shot and die, and no skill should save you.


Keep ruining shooters, pls.
Its not ruining shooters by creating balance in a category of the game that is blatantly out of balance. Refer to the quote below for the constructive ideas that we/they should be thinking of.
A highly skilled player being allowed to survive entire rounds because he took the time to become skilled at his role is blatantly out of balance?

That's like saying college graduates shouldn't be allowed to earn more money than non-college graduates because it's 'unbalanced' that someone who put in more effort than someone else deserves more benefits.

While you're on the anti-skill road, let's just give players with 4 or higher KD's 10% health, so that they can be 'balanced' to players that can't even go positive. They're more skilled, but they don't deserve to do better, right? It's only fair that noobs have a fair chance of killing them.

everyone says that a skilled pilot is difficult to take down. I would like to say that is untrue. Gang up on him, easy as that
Discovery530
US Enlisted: 2012-05-11
2013-03-26 01:18
Yes I agree, but some players are just really good at what they do and you can't nerf that
Pro PTFOer and horizontal jet circle jerker
Hirsute_Dave
AU Enlisted: 2011-11-04
2013-03-26 01:22
JonneeZ said:
Archangel990 said:
Our effectiveness also goes down exponentially with the number of lock on weapons on the map at any time. An ace can almost be useless if facing a combination of stingers, heatseeker jets, and heatseekering helicopters. It'll take us a few minutes to clear our areas in that situation, which is a lot of leeway for ground troops.
.
Lol that actually pretty much proves the OPs point. The fact that it can take a "combination" of 4-6 players to keep a singe good jet pilot quiet, not even guaranteed destroyed, is proof that jets are OP. And I love flying jets. So basically 1 good pilot has drawn 4-6 players' attention away from the ground game, less engies with RPGs to deal with tanks, and makes a greatly overproportional impact on the game.

It's not unique to jets.

I've seen exactly the same thing happen with attack and scout helis and if you get someone really good in a tank or an IFV they can easily keep 3 or 4 guys distracted for long periods of time. Forcing people to pick up stiglas is probably the biggest issue - RPGs are a lot more flexible.
Get off my lawn you damn kids!
lIlLVLCAPlIl
CA Enlisted: 2011-12-07
2013-03-26 01:27
I feel like this same retarded argument is why the Recon kit and high powered scopes were nerfed so badly.
Treborlavok
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-03-26 02:03
Archangel990 said:
Treborlavok said:
To control the air by taking down choppers and jets. and taking down tanks from a distance.

But obviously that isnt enough for some people. They feel they should be able to take on entire teams in their jet and live because, "im in a jet and i put the time in to become an ace pilot so i should get to kill anyone and everything no matter what."

like i said, if your in a jet and you get too close to the ground you SHOULD be afraid your GOING to get shot down. But as it is now, jets have nothing to fear. just get below radar and boost to get out of range. Jets are and should be powerful. but it shouldnt take an entire squad to take down 1 jet pilot from the ground. Do the math and then think about the balance in the game... someone else said it too. 2 ace pilots on the same team, respectfully takes roughly 2 squads working together to take them both down. Thats 8 ppl trying to take down 2 jets... while the rest of the enemy team is attacking on the ground leaving how many more members of your team to try and defend the ground...? Now tell me... how is that balance?

Theres amazing tank drivers/teams out there. but it doesnt take an entire squad to take them down, and it shouldnt. Tanks excel at their role to control the ground units and CAN be taken down. Jets on the other hand, excel at taking down air units AND ground/infantry units and have nothing to fear.
Of course it isn't enough... we're good enough to keep pushing our envelopes. Jets have the highest skill-cap of anything in this game, but to compensate they also have the steepest learning curve. Evidence of that? Look up how many jet tutorials are on Youtube versus tutorials on any other aspect of BF3.


No, the role of jets in this game is not to simply control air and harass tanks at long distance. Jets are the rulers of the battlefield. Their role is to destroy whatever they can, at all times, so their team can win the game more easily. Why do you think DICE gave them the most powerful arsenal of anti-vehicle weapons in the entire game?


Also, it actually doesn't take an entire squad to take down jets. Not even close, pal. You know how many people it takes? One. Another jet pilot. And unless the enemy pilot is a crack-ace, it's very easy to take the jet out. What's the only requirement for such a thing? A bit of skill. But GOD NO. Any mention of that awful word makes you cringe, doesn't it?


And that part about taking nearly an entire team to take out two skilled players... how is that unique to jets? It appears as though you simply reek of bias.

Listen, pal... if you want balance, here it is: jet pilots cannot capture flags, so they are reliant upon the teammates they protect to do that for them. We cannot do whatever we want, because our role is not all-encompassing. That is what the rest of the team is for. Wait a sec... that smells like... teamwork? In Battlefield? *gasp*


Lastly, I'd just like to point out the fact that you're basing all your boundless knowledge on the so-called 'invincibility' of good pilots on the fact that it takes you, literally, ten minutes to get a kill in either CQ jet. Where do your observations come from? How do you know how easy it is to survive in a jet while actually maximizing your attacking potential? I don't think you do.


You seem to be missing my point entirely. Im not talking about the pilots staying in the air like they should. im talking about the pilots that harass the infantry units. Plain and simple, if you get too close to the battlefield you SHOULD be shot down. Jets are extremely effective and rightfully should be. They do have a high learning curve, but so do attack choppers.

Do your math again... 1 squad of 4 to take on 1 jet pilot attacking infantry units... thats 1 eng= flares 3 more eng= disable and then kill. Thats all IF the pilot doesnt get down below radar before the second stinger/igla goes off. So even in the best scenario, thats MAYBE 3 infantry to take down 1 pilot. MAYBE.

Now again, do that math with 2 ace pilots on the same team. Thats, again best case scenario, 6 players to take down 2 jet pilots. Leaving the remaining 6 players vs 10 other ground/infantry and possibly chopper units. Now again... tell me why 1 ace pilot, should be able to tie up 1/4-1/2 of the enemy team?

I swear this community is the worst when it comes to talking about something like adults... everyone instantly starts acting like theyre 12. "o get good bro, u mad bro, its called skill learn it, teamwork bro its the name of the game." The facts are all there that the jets are unbalanced. like i said give them a reason to stay "above radar" and far enough away from the ground while keeping their ability to take down air and mobile ground units. IF you get "below radar" know that your GOING to get shot down. stay in the air and control the vehicles like you should. Your teams ground/infantry units will handle the enemy infantry on the ground and take the objectives.

As a good pilot yourself, you should know that if you get disabled you..... bail. So go on, tell me again how horrible i am flying a jet and keep trying to change the subject. ;)
Archangel990
US Enlisted: 2011-10-30
2013-03-26 02:24 , edited 2013-03-26 02:29 by Archangel990
I don't bail if I get disabled (unless I'm seconds away from my airfield).

I land and attempt to repair, or failing that, die in the process. I even have video proof of me failing to repair my jet after an emergency landing due to hilariously frustrating circumstances.

Besides, I don't know how that's relevant. Your lack of flying experience is, because it casts severe doubts on your credibility and highlights your obvious lack of facts.



Also, I find it cute that you completely ignored the vast majority of my argument (non-uniqueness of the jets' ability to distract multiple enemies, only one enemy in another jet required at any time to destroy a jet himself, the inability of jet pilots to capture flags to make up for their large roles) because it suited you to ignore them, yet you talk about having discussions like adults. I didn't know adults plugged their ears and yelled 'lalala' when someone beats out their 'argument' (and I do use that term to describe your hopelessly biased and heavily opinionated mess lightly).

You strike me as a child who cannot possibly comprehend that someone out there is wiser than him. News flash, kiddo: you're not an intelligent person if the best 'argument' you can give is that 'The facts are all there that the jets are unbalanced.' That's a cute statement because of the fact that jets (realistically) are unable to capture objectives themselves, and that in itself creates a balance. Your untenable, over-generalized statement is now completely and utterly false because of that one counter-example, and its fallacious nature is evidence enough that no 'facts' to support your claim exist.

Come to think of it, I actually have yet to see any real 'fact' from your end. Do you even know what a 'fact' is? Here, let me Google that for you. [lmgtfy.com] Now, before you try to make the mentally incompetent claim that 'jets cause X amount of engineers to attack it' is a fact, then I should let you know that you're already horrifically mistaken. That isn't even an observation; it's a purely baseless generalization with no evidence to support itself whatsoever.

Come back when you have something that isn't just an opinion. Otherwise, feel free to wallow in your self-imposed mental incompetence elsewhere. You have no place amongst the real adults.
You're trying to find some kind of fault, aren't you? Good luck.
RangerCLZ
US Enlisted: 2012-01-25
2013-03-26 02:35
EnamouredCargo said:
Jets are overpowered, once you get a person who knows everything about them and knows everything to do in them, they just dominate everything and i mean everything on the BF, they really shouldn't of put them in, they are as hard as anything to blow up since they can fly faster then the missile and the flares come back way to fast, they are unbalanced.

Nooo haters and people saying im a noob and i suck, i'm serious about this


Noob you suck.

But seriously, if a pilot can outrun a sidewinder, then who cares? The Engi on the ground who wasted a missile and waited 30 seconds for nothing. That is who. Good pilots get rewarded by being able to do the cool tricks, while noob pilots get killed.

If I had an A10 on Conquest, oh, i'd have a field day. But they had to put a strike jet that can barely dogfight and has Rocketpods but no bomb or anything, a single bomb that reloads every like 30-45 seconds. But oh well.
The ammo for my Top 10 Weapons costs over $170,000 based on NATO Spec ammunition. The single most expensive rifle is the SRR-61
Treborlavok
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-03-26 02:37
"You seem to be missing my point entirely. Im not talking about the pilots staying in the air like they should. im talking about the pilots that harass the infantry units."

Thats my rebuttal. Go ahead, scroll back up and read it, its the first thing i started with.

Also as ace pilot, you should know that if your getting followed/damaged by an enemy jet there is no landing and repairing. Its either fly or die. If you get hit by a stinger/igla, as it is now yes you can fly away safely below radar land and repair and come back and repeat the process.


my facts are facts, this isnt an opinion, its the mechanics of the game. It takes a minimum of 3 infantry units to take down 1 jet pilot. 1 to pop his flares, 1 to disable, 1 to kill. Thats IF he doesnt get below radar and just fly away scott free. So again, im waiting for your response to my side of the argument. and yet you seem to yet again revert to trying to change the subject and using insults.
 
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