Regarding Server R9, and getting a round started

MikaelKalms
Enlisted: 2011-10-23
2011-11-23 18:50
The latest release (R9) of the BF3 PC game server introduced, among other things, an unranked mode.

At the same time DICE locked down some settings for servers running in ranked mode.
The most prominent ones were:
- PunkBuster is forced active on a ranked server
- Game password is forced off on a ranked server
- Pre-Round player count is forced 4 or higher on a ranked server (default is 8, but can be lowered to 4)
- idle-kick is forced on on a ranked server


Most servers out there run in ranked mode, and there has been a fair bit of negative sentiment regarding the ranked server lock-down.
It seems to be centered around these three things:
- 4 players on a server needed to get out of pre-round
- When in pre-round, players cannot move
- Idle timeout will kick anyone who doesn't touch the mouse/keyboard within 5 minutes

These three in combination are perceived as too restrictive by people. Particularly smaller communities complain that it is much more difficult to populate their servers than it used to be.


Most communities that do not have a large number of members get a good game started on their server by "seeding"; that is, having players hang out on the server - sometimes being idle/away - with the intent of attracting other players. This works because other players are more likely to join a server with players on it than an empty server. Before R9, the server could be set to start the round with just 1 player, so the seeding players could move around on the server and play the game. With R9, the seeders can no longer move. A single person could also seed a server previously. With R9 it is ineffective; other players will learn to avoid servers with <4 players on them as they will also have to wait in pre-round.

Adding the the 5-minute idle kick means that having less than four people seed is not effective, as they will get kicked out of pre-round with regular intervals.


Seeding is positive from a community perspective. More people playing on the community's server equals a happy community. Seeding with idle players is however negative from a pubbing player's perspective. It means that there are servers with players on them, some of which are idle for a long time. To put it bluntly, players that are seeding while idle are false advertising for the server. Seeding is still done because it is one of the few means which communities have to attract players to their servers. There are more people who want to run BF3 servers than is justified by the player base. Therefore, communities use any methods at their disposal to affect other players' to choose to play on their servers.

DICE is not particularly fond of seeding-when-idling as a method of attracting players to servers. This is the main reason why the idle-kick was forced on.
DICE is not particularly fond of stats padding either. This is the main reason why the game password is forced off, and the pre-round requires 4 players.


However, the combination of all the restrictions at once is too restrictive. We will not lift the pre-round min player count restriction, but we will allow ranked servers to disable idle-kick in Server R10. There is certainly more that can be done to improve the game in this area, but I prefer not to make any promises which I cannot personally hold.


So there. I mentioned Server R10. It will be a small update. We'll post about it here once it is available.
-c-rec0n
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 18:53
Well, I used to be able to play before but now I just get an infinite load. It says "Loading Level" but never actually does. It doesn't crash persay, but I can't get the game to actually load-in.
Winterwolf_RNA
CA Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2011-11-23 18:56
Same
xerxes74
CA Enlisted: 2011-10-29
2011-11-23 18:57
I understand you guys may not be fond of the 4 player rule, but we are the ones paying for the servers and we should be able to go in and practice flying and moving around learning the map. I understand that players are point stacking but cant your restrict that a game will not calculate k/d or points until after 4 players join?
TheCodeMonk
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 18:57
Why don't you just make it work like BC2? Players can move, shoot each other, fly/drive vehicles, but do not get points or rank until the minimum amount of players is reached, then restart the round? There was nothing wrong with that and it worked fine...
Poloo_C
Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-11-23 18:57
Why can't this be just like in BC2? Scoring desable until X players join the server. Same with the idle kick.
PSPfreaky
NL Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-11-23 18:58
xerxes74 said:
I understand you guys may not be fond of the 4 player rule, but we are the ones paying for the servers and we should be able to go in and practice flying and moving around learning the map. I understand that players are point stacking but cant your restrict that a game will not calculate k/d or points until after 4 players join?
This is a forum signature :)
_SuPr3m3_NTM_
FR Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2011-11-23 18:59
hello
I am admin server
since the last patch the weapons are much less efficient
all weapon are the same
noscope
no acuracy
more
hc in 60% is a joke
oblige has having 4 players to start round is unacceptable level
what will cause the death of small team which often launch their servers SQDM that with two players
I think not to renew my ad server and run games or other admins have more configuration possibilities
codialement
DHEERAJ-INDIA
IN Enlisted: 2011-10-28
2011-11-23 19:00
well first anyone start this waste bf3 ? why dice release patch ..
MikaelKalms
Enlisted: 2011-10-23
2011-11-23 19:00
Personally I think that the BC2 solution is quite nice.

I'm not the one who would implement something like that, so I'm not going to promise it.
StOrMcRoW84
AT Enlisted: 2011-11-02
2011-11-23 19:00
LOL @ this piece of crap. An honest "oops, sorry" would be appropriate, but not this posting.
Lazy-Aim
VU Enlisted: 2011-10-31
2011-11-23 19:02
xerxes74 said:
I understand you guys may not be fond of the 4 player rule, but we are the ones paying for the servers and we should be able to go in and practice flying and moving around learning the map. I understand that players are point stacking but cant your restrict that a game will not calculate k/d or points until after 4 players join?
its easy to do but for some reason they dont want that for bf3
Cryha-Vi
CA Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 19:02
Why is it that if people are paying for servers that DICE feels the need to enforcer those servers. Isn't that the job of those whom have set this servers up? I can understand trying to crack down on the stat padding bit, but at the same time there are bigger problems this game is face then a bunch of kids giving them selves false stats to make them selves look good. DICE really needs to look at the bigger picture and fix the major issues over the smaller ones first, get your game running smooth and as near flawless as possible. Then worry about what people are doing to make them selves look better on a web page.

The last patch which was supposed to help fix the black screens and the crashing didn't do what it was intended, I still get a black screen when I first load the game up on a new server, crashing not so much any more, normally only with the black screens.
bloosdude
GB Enlisted: 2011-11-02
2011-11-23 19:02
MikaelKalms said:
Personally I think that the BC2 solution is quite nice.

I'm not the one who would implement something like that, so I'm not going to promise it.

could it be put forward to the relevant peeps as a possible update?
fuentesa33
PR Enlisted: 2011-11-17
2011-11-23 19:03 , edited 2011-11-23 19:03 by fuentesa33
MikaelKalms said:
Personally I think that the BC2 solution is quite nice.

I'm not the one who would implement something like that, so I'm not going to promise it.

It would be the most logical thing to do. Stil ask myself why BF3 have become so restrictive.
Telkwa
CA Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-11-23 19:05
While waiting for 4 players why make the 1-3 players seeding just stand and do nothing. Let them run around and practice but not count points until the 4th has joined then when the 4th has joined restart the official round in 30 seconds. This is used in other games. You get a message saying "no points awarded, not enough players" but you can still move around and not be bored to death.
x--KAMAZUTRA--x
Enlisted: 2011-11-05
2011-11-23 19:06
Most servers out there run in ranked mode, and there has been a fair bit of negative sentiment regarding the ranked server lock-down.
It seems to be centered around these three things:
- 4 players on a server needed to get out of pre-round
- When in pre-round, players cannot move
- Idle timeout will kick anyone who doesn't touch the mouse/keyboard within 5 minutes



(sorry for my bad eng. )

THIS IS BULLSHIT !!!

we are not many people in ouer clan and we are cant play when not 4 people on server this is shit big shit !!!

need wait 20 minutes for joining people and this is waiting time and not play time ! NOOB COMUNITY
IIFortranII
GB Enlisted: 2011-11-06
2011-11-23 19:06
The BC2 method is so straightforward, simple and effective I can't understand why the same method would not have been used for BF3. It makes no sense to restrict the servers in this fashion. Just use the same system as BC2, was perfect, people could practice, play with weapons, learn the vehicles, do all sorts and there was zero chance of stat padding.
FAWdigger
Enlisted: 2011-10-29
2011-11-23 19:06 , edited 2011-11-23 19:11 by FAWdigger
Leave a reply...
TheCodeMonk said:
Why don't you just make it work like BC2? Players can move, shoot each other, fly/drive vehicles, but do not get points or rank until the minimum amount of players is reached, then restart the round? There was nothing wrong with that and it worked fine...
Well said agree 100 % worked on BF2 why not on BF3 at least players won't get bored and leave before it starts.
Fed up with sitting waiting for more players we are a small clan running BF3 & MW3 servers can't get enough to kick start the BF3 server, only thing to do is get rid of one of them guess which.
Juxtapuh
Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2011-11-23 19:08
disable scoring for less than four players? worked fine in bc2. also, it is almost impossible for the small squad rush communities to seed a 4v4 server now. procon has a plugin that tracks score vs kills. if you are in a server getting points without killing anyone it auto will kick/ban. seems like an easy solution for the stat padders. we appreciate hearing from you, thank you for the answers, however there needs to be some two way communication. sure, you made the game, but WE bought the game, and WE pay for the servers. WE are the customers. we are willing to work with Dice to help control/eliminate padders. i fear for many communities you have killed their server with this dictatorship.

imagine you bought a car. two weeks later, the manufacturer calls and says you must have at least 3 people in your car before it will start, and oh yeah.. you can only sit in it for 5 minutes whilst waiting. no radio. no moving. just sit there.
BoogieKidZ
Enlisted: 2011-11-01
2011-11-23 19:08
DiggerJohn_uk said:
Leave a reply...
TheCodeMonk said:
Why don't you just make it work like BC2? Players can move, shoot each other, fly/drive vehicles, but do not get points or rank until the minimum amount of players is reached, then restart the round? There was nothing wrong with that and it worked fine...
Well said agree 100 % worked on BF2 why not on BF3 at least players won't get bored and leave before it starts.

AGREED!!! People want to play..not sit and wait...
fuentesa33
PR Enlisted: 2011-11-17
2011-11-23 19:08
Telkwa said:
While waiting for 4 players why make the 1-3 players seeding just stand and do nothing. Let them run around and practice but not count points until the 4th has joined then when the 4th has joined restart the official round in 30 seconds. This is used in other games. You get a message saying &quot;no points awarded, not enough players&quot; but you can still move around and not be bored to death.

The thing that gets me is why they (DICE) haven't thought of this. I mean, they designed BC2 why not implement the same concept? Are there any reasons as to why they are being so restrictive? I honestly don't get it.
putnani
UZ Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2011-11-23 19:09
Leave a reply...
DiggerJohn_uk said:
Leave a reply...
TheCodeMonk said:
Why don't you just make it work like BC2? Players can move, shoot each other, fly/drive vehicles, but do not get points or rank until the minimum amount of players is reached, then restart the round? There was nothing wrong with that and it worked fine...
Well said agree 100 % worked on BF2 why not on BF3 at least players won't get bored and leave before it starts.


I want to see this happend.
PvillePiper
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 19:10
Leave a reply...
TheCodeMonk said:
Why don't you just make it work like BC2? Players can move, shoot each other, fly/drive vehicles, but do not get points or rank until the minimum amount of players is reached, then restart the round? There was nothing wrong with that and it worked fine...

I agree. What I don't understand is that ProCon had a plug-in to prevent stats padding and you, the game creator, can't do the same? WOW... amazing.

BTW, I was stats padding last night. There was only 4 people in the server and I ran around behind them taking the flags. I got killed once and killed nobody and still got the higest score at 2600 points.... 4200 if you count the squad bonuses. So, I guess you can't prevent padding can you.
NovusRex
NL Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2011-11-23 19:10 , edited 2011-11-23 19:10 by NovusRex
MikaelKalms said:
However, the combination of all the restrictions at once is too restrictive. We will not lift the pre-round min player count restriction, but we will allow ranked servers to disable idle-kick in Server R10.

Then my decision is final. I'll stop renting my server, because obviously you/Dice care more about what YOU guys want than what the community/server admins want. A stab in the back to all server admins, especially the ones with a small community/clan.
Subz3r0mkt
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 19:10
Trying to combat stat-padding is futile. For whatever game upon launch, when ever stats/leader boards are involved, people will always manage to exploit it.

Unless there's some legit competition or prize involved for being on top of the leader board, I see no harm in allowing us server admins to run our rented servers how we wish.

In fact, previous to the patch, often times I would see these so called statpadders actually help seed/populate my server. Now it's a complete ghost town.

As mentioned several times before. Go with how it is for BC2. If you cannot implement this solution right away with the next server-side patch; at least remove both time-out and min. player start restrictions. Please!!
Jellymech_1
Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2011-11-23 19:11
wow what a load of crap , WE pay for the game and WE pay for the servers !!!!!

after the uproar this have caused you think you would listen to what we want, also you forgot to mention the part were after seeding for hours to fill the server you have to do it again 2hrs later after it crashes.
Unprotected_Sex
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 19:12
Leave a reply...
xerxes74 said:
I understand you guys may not be fond of the 4 player rule, but we are the ones paying for the servers and we should be able to go in and practice flying and moving around learning the map. I understand that players are point stacking but cant your restrict that a game will not calculate k/d or points until after 4 players join?


Yes they can just like in BFBC2
BlueCelticPagan
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-29
2011-11-23 19:13
The 5 min players is complete bullshit, i've supported this game and previous games through all the issues but this is a game killing addition. Complete and utter crap not being able to at least play without scores enabled before 5 players join.

Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit
Crap Crap Crap
if it stays like this then i'll move to cod 3, don't want to but then i don't want to wait standing in a server that won't fill up because of these bullshit restrictions.

Impliment the vietnam code that allows you to play with scores disabled

GET A FUCKING GRIP AND SUPPORT THE CUSTOMERS WHO ARE SUPPORTING YOU
Silent_Threat69
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2011-11-23 19:15
DiggerJohn_uk said:
Leave a reply...
TheCodeMonk said:
Why don't you just make it work like BC2? Players can move, shoot each other, fly/drive vehicles, but do not get points or rank until the minimum amount of players is reached, then restart the round? There was nothing wrong with that and it worked fine...
Well said agree 100 % worked on BF2 why not on BF3 at least players won't get bored and leave before it starts.
Fed up with sitting waiting for more players we are a small clan running BF3 &amp; MW3 servers can't get enough to kick start the BF3 server, only thing to do is get rid of one of them guess which.

I agree at least let us run around a goof off in our servers while we wait for players.