The Truth Behind Fixing The Kill Trading...

IAmPixelTwitch
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2013-12-19 19:02 , edited 2013-12-22 14:15 by IAmPixelTwitch
Ok so I am currently working on a video explaining and showing the "Netcode" since the latest patch.
What I found surprised me really... Rather then actually fix the kill-trading they simply made the damage count on alternate frames.
Then if a kill trade would have happened it looks at the ping and gives the kill to the lowest pinging player.

THIS IS JUST A TEST VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwqbTCwrzoE [youtube.com]
Gameplay running with 100fps Slow Motion.

Also they fixed the "death behind cover" by having the death animation ping you back a few feet to where you was on the other persons screen.
They finally re-moved the "one shot kill" kinda death by making it appear like you are still alive when in fact you died many frames ago. They do this so the damage is counted down rather then going from 100 to 0 in a single frame...

The truth is none of the "Netcode" related issues have been fixed... Simply hidden...
RabbitEXE
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2013-12-19 19:07
Interesting... Would like to see the Video soon.
darkhorror
US Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-12-19 19:16
I have noticed that you are dead while you have 1 health when dead and falling down, once you hit the ground your life goes to 0 and you see the kill cam.

You can see this with redeploy
CTOE752
US Enlisted: 2012-02-03
2013-12-19 19:20
A few times I have been fully behind cover and then get killed... only then to see my lifeless body on the ground in the open, not behind cover.
It's a joke, not a dick... don't take it so hard. KCCO!
EinBugStein
Enlisted: 2011-11-16
2013-12-19 19:23
I do still have a lot of killtrades but most of them are with people having a lot higher ping than me.

Since I do only play local my ping is wlays around 10-20ms while the people I'm getting trades with are usaually at 40+ Pings
s7092910
CA Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-12-19 19:25
Just going to post this post of mine, it was in a couple other threads, explaining what they fixed.

s7092910 said:
They fixed it, to the point that it only stops registering bullets that are registered as fired after the server has determined that you are dead. So if you fire a bullet before the server determines you are dead, it will count as a live round. So in this case you can still have trade kills. But only in certain scenarios.

This is an example of what would happen. Say player 1 has 50ms ping to the server and player 2 has 150ms ping to the server.

Scenario 1

So it would look something like this.

Frame 1
Player 1 ----- (50ms) ------ Server ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2

So for this example, we will say that 1 bullet will count as 50 damage and 50ms as 1 frame. So player 1 sees player 2 and player 2 sees player 1. They both shoot each other at frame 1. So frame 2, the server register Player 1's bullet has hit Player 2. And Player 2 has 50hp on the server (but 100 hp on his client). So it would look somethingg like this.

Frame 2
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 100)Server(P2 hp 50) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 100).

Now in frame 2, both P1 and P2 shoot another bullet. In frame 3, the server registers P1's second bullet has hit player 2. So player 2 is dead on the server, but still 100hp on his client. Since it takes 3 frames for data to transfer to his computer from the server. And player 1 sees that P2 has taken 50% damage.

Frame 3
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 100)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 100).

Now in frame 4, P1 and the server both see P2 as dead. And P2 still has yet to recieve any damage tho. But now here is were things get interesting, since now, P2's bullet has reached the server. Now due to how the server side checks are done. The game looks at when the bullet was fired on P2's screen. Which was at frame 1. And checks to see if P2 was dead, which he wasn't. So the bullet registers as hit. So the frame would look something like this.

Frame 4
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 50)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 100).

Now in frame 5, P1 has just taken damage and P2 has just taken damage on their clients. And P2's second bullet has just registered as damage on the server. So it would look something like this.

Frame 5
Player 1 (hp 50) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 dead)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 50).

Now in frame 6, both players recieve the last bit of damage, killing them on their screen.

Frame 6
Player 1 (dead) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 dead)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (dead).

In frame 8, is when P2 recieves data that he has killed player 1.


Scenario 2

We will look at what DICE has fixed under this scenario. Same players, but player 2 will shoot 1 frame later.

Frame 1
Player 1 ----- (50ms) ------ Server ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2

So for this example, we will say that 1 bullet will count as 50 damage and 50ms as 1 frame. So player 1 sees player 2 and player 2 does not see player 1 yet. Player 1 shoots at frame 1. So frame 2, the server register Player 1's bullet has hit Player 2. And Player 2 has 50hp on the server (but 100 hp on his client). So it would look somethingg like this.

Frame 2
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 100)Server(P2 hp 50) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 100).

Now in frame 2, now P2 turns around and sees P1. So now both P1 and P2 shoot a bullet. In frame 3, the server registers P1's second bullet has hit player 2. So player 2 is dead on the server, but still 100hp on his client. Since it takes 3 frames for data to transfer to his computer from the server. And player 1 sees that P2 has taken 50% damage.

Frame 3
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 100)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 100).

Now in frame 4, P1 sees that P2 is dead.

Frame 4
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 100)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 100).

Now in frame 5, P2's first bullet reaches the server, which was fired in frame 2, which in frame 2, P2 was still alive on the server. So the bullet still damages P1. And P2 has just recieved his damage on his screen.

Frame 5
Player 1 (hp 100) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 hp 50)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (hp 50).

Now in frame 6, P2's second bullet comes to the server, which was fired in frame 3, now the server does it's check to see if player 2 was alive in frame 3 on the server. P2 was dead in frame 3. So the bullet does not register. And P1 recieves damage on his screen.

Frame 6
Player 1 (50) ----- (50ms) ------ (P1 dead)Server(P2 dead) ----- (150ms) ------ Player 2 (dead).


So in short, any bullet that is fired after the server determines you are dead does not register. But if a shot is fired before the server determines you are dead will register. So you can still get kill trades. But you are less likely to. This will give the advantage to players who have lower ping as well as who shoots first, is who is more likely to win a fire fight.


And the one shot kill bug. You know what the cause of that bug was/is? It is the netcode in the server deciding it is better to send the damage value in one packet instead of multiple packets. This usually will happen if the server processes the hit detection a bit slower for the first bullet that hits or whatever.

And the thing is, the death behind cover is never going to be fixed. It was an issue in past battlefield games as well as past FPS games(less likely if the game used server side hit detection, which very few games actually do).
TRALLALAL
IT Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-12-19 19:25
Interesting..
Septevar
GB Enlisted: 2012-09-12
2013-12-19 19:25
kill trades still exist, so however they 'fixed' it did not work at all. I think you summed it up pretty much as well, it hasn't been fixed at all just glossed over.
OmniscientJV
NL Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-12-19 19:26
Issues like these can be very complicated, working around an issue is more or less known as fixing it in the industry, as long as the end result is good that is.

I'm interested to see your video.
“The reason people find it so hard to be happy is that they always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be.” ― Marcel Pagnol
VioLenT_x_KiLLeR
PL Enlisted: 2012-06-29
2013-12-19 19:28
I have this feeling as well....

I am a high kd infantry players.
But since the last patch I am struggling, sometimes astonished, surprised, and wtf situations.
I am very confident about my kills, usually I finish each game with 3.5+ kd in bf3 and bf4..........
but something strange is going on...... and it makes me wonder, why did they change the kill cam suddenly, no one in the community asked for it.

are they trying to hide something ?
OldScho0l
Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-12-19 19:28
Shocking! I find it hard to believe that such a stand-up company like DICE/EA would do such things. /sarcasm
DlVERGENTct0S
AE Enlisted: 2012-05-05
2013-12-19 19:31
waiting video, and dice fixing
t0t0r069
Enlisted: 2013-11-01
2013-12-19 19:37
This post has been removed by the Battlelog administrators.
eviloop
Enlisted: 2011-10-31
2013-12-19 19:39
Anyone noticed an increase in PL as you play more rounds ?
PEEEEEETREEEEEE
US Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-12-19 19:40
VioLenT_x_KiLLeR said:
I have this feeling as well....

I am a high kd infantry players.
But since the last patch I am struggling, sometimes astonished, surprised, and wtf situations.
I am very confident about my kills, usually I finish each game with 3.5+ kd in bf3 and bf4..........
but something strange is going on...... and it makes me wonder, why did they change the kill cam suddenly, no one in the community asked for it.

are they trying to hide something ?


I have the exact same feeling.

It's become a lot harder and I need to be a lot more focused to keep the same stats I was before.
wut?
LeeLooMultiSpas
FI Enlisted: 2012-07-21
2013-12-19 19:42
IAmPixelTwitch said:
Ok so I am currently working on a video explaining and showing the "Netcode" since the latest patch.
What I found surprised me really... Rather then actually fix the kill-trading they simply made the damage count on alternate frames.
Then if a kill trade would have happened it looks at the ping and gives the kill to the lowest pinging player.

Also they fixed the "death behind cover" by having the death animation ping you back a few feet to where you was on the other persons screen.
They finally re-moved the "one shot kill" kinda death by making it appear like you are still alive when in fact you died many frames ago. They do this so the damage is counted down rather then going from 100 to 0 in a single frame...

The truth is none of the "Netcode" related issues have been fixed... Simply hidden...

After pach this game has been unplayable for me. Players shoots me before they come out corner, or don't even come out corner, and my favorite was player who drop death and after that just jump back up and shot me. Sad that I don't have that on fraps.

DICE how about FIXIN game, and EA you can give me that free game to entertain me while fixing.
eviloop
Enlisted: 2011-10-31
2013-12-19 19:47
Have you tried running the System Test ( options ) when you have those issues ?

I normally run it 3 times or so when i notice that the game is behaving oddly.

I noticed that everything i start kill trading and getting killed around the corners and such, the Test returns PL loss.
Pulldozer
NO Enlisted: 2012-03-17
2013-12-19 19:53
IAmPixelTwitch said:
Ok so I am currently working on a video explaining and showing the "Netcode" since the latest patch.
What I found surprised me really... Rather then actually fix the kill-trading they simply made the damage count on alternate frames.
Then if a kill trade would have happened it looks at the ping and gives the kill to the lowest pinging player.

Also they fixed the "death behind cover" by having the death animation ping you back a few feet to where you was on the other persons screen.
They finally re-moved the "one shot kill" kinda death by making it appear like you are still alive when in fact you died many frames ago. They do this so the damage is counted down rather then going from 100 to 0 in a single frame...

The truth is none of the "Netcode" related issues have been fixed... Simply hidden...

Another conspiracy theory. Great.
"Time spent with cats is never wasted" - Sigmund Freud
MattyD242
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-12-19 19:54
IAmPixelTwitch said:
They finally re-moved the "one shot kill" kinda death by making it appear like you are still alive when in fact you died many frames ago. They do this so the damage is counted down rather then going from 100 to 0 in a single frame...


This makes a lot of sense. It would explain why I constantly die before hearing any incoming rounds or taking any damage. Sometimes the death animation even feels like it's been accelerated to 'catch up' with the other client. It's BS and I've had enough of it.
PTFO or GTFO
IAmPixelTwitch
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2013-12-19 21:14
MattyD242 said:
IAmPixelTwitch said:
They finally re-moved the "one shot kill" kinda death by making it appear like you are still alive when in fact you died many frames ago. They do this so the damage is counted down rather then going from 100 to 0 in a single frame...
This makes a lot of sense. It would explain why I constantly die before hearing any incoming rounds or taking any damage. Sometimes the death animation even feels like it's been accelerated to 'catch up' with the other client. It's BS and I've had enough of it.


Its not made faster but in the instance you die you are moved to the position you was on the person that killed you screen