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Visceral... wtf?

bizerker21
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2015-07-01 13:22 , edited 2015-07-01 13:26 by bizerker21
Zormau said:
bizerker21 said:
LOL, yeah I got that. So tell me while someone does that how they are moving around and looking quickly from left, right, up, and down. Just cuz you show a 3 sec video doesn't mean it's a technique used in gaming. Maybe prone and stationary, but his video clearly wasn't that...simple, it's macros or rapid fire! He's full of it!
Not to be rude, but weren't you reminding us to be civil just a few posts ago? Now you're spouting hackusations because you think someone can't be that good. Macro use is just as banned as wallhacks and aimbots.

Also as some people mentioned, the thread's title is awful, but it captures the gut reaction to what we see in the files pretty well. It's just not something that should be used to start a serious discussion.


Fair enough, but the whole reason it's being brought up is on the contention of the G17 and the use of this so called 3 finger technique. The other posts said that I need to broaden my horizons and shows a vid doing it, but not in game or while moving. I'd say some might be able to do it, but it would be lucky to do it and move it to hit your target on the regular. Prone or stable is doable, problem is the video never shows a prone or stable situation it's all fast moving and basically makes it impossible. As Zachulon said, "if legit then the dude is dope." Since I'm a sensible man, I'll beg to differ that it's not legit at all. Maybe I should of just put that instead of he's full of it.
MarxistDictator
Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2015-07-01 13:58
It's a mouse, its a lot more sensitive than the controller buttons. You don't have to depress it as much and it takes less effort, so he's rolling the button taps with his fingers. It's not just one trigger finger.
Lead Based Toys
VincentNZ
DE Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2015-07-01 14:13
Even if you can not pull it off at a rate of 900 per minute, you do not have to do so. As long as you stay over the capped rate of fire of the other sidearms.

So if we have indeed four sidearms that range from 34-25 or 34-12 and have roughly the same spread and recoil values, but three have a firerate of 400 and one has the potential to go up to 900, I know what sidearm I would choose.

To me this can never be intentional, because it is not realistic, it is not an authentic depiction of this weapon and it certainly can not be called balanced. So it must be a mistake on the developer's side and should be fixed. That is of course unless some obscure formula is at work that makes the G17 behave in line compared to other sidearms, but I can not really see how that would work or could have an impact on only one weapon.

You see I do not own Hardline for different reasons and I only played it, albeit extensively, in the two betas and we all know the critisism Visceral received there. It is a general consensus, too, that upon release, the weapon balance in Hardline was a lackluster and seemingly still has quite a few issues.

I understand that the overall design maxime was something like trying to give every weapon a certain niche or to create weapons that feel individual. This is new to the BF franchise and was an experiment and needs to be treated as such.
However this leaves, from the stats, a great number of different damage values, spread and recoil, that do not seem to follow any order. So, of course, for anyone it will look chaotic at best, because there is no overlying template where balance starts.

See in BF4 you can roughly say that max and min damage is based on calibre and damage drop-off is usually determined by barrel length/weapon class. It actually uses a formula, but before any balance is applied this is the foundation. Hardline does not have that.
So while the compact 45 and the M1911 use the same calibre and are both pistols, they have different max damage, I am not sure about the min damage, and have a different drop-off. Additionally they have different recoil and spread values. The are so many variables that it is not really transparent why they are so different from one another.
Then, if I recall correctly, the M416 and the M16 have the same max and min damage as well as drop-off, while the G36 has lower damage, both min and max, and a flatter drop-off. All three use the same ammunition, and while the M416 has a more similar barrel length to the G36C and both are classified as a carbine in real life, it shares the same damage value as the M16 which has the highest barrel length.
The RO933 if I remember correctly had another damage model as well, and being a starter weapon as well.

Generally weapons that behave drastically different in range of maybe only ten metres will never be seen consistent. Players will not understand why at 4m the gun is pure death and at 6m which is still rather point blank is utterly useless.

As a conclusion, free weapon balancing can be good, when you have a limited amount of weapons, to fill niches, or if you use a fundamental structure. Otherwise you will end up with guns that are, at best, redundant, or at the worst obsolete and useless, even in their supposed niche.
l-Randy-I
Enlisted: 2013-06-21
2015-07-01 14:31
Ramo1911 said:
StarscreamUK said:
I'm sorry but a review of criminal activity, but he doesnt even show criminal activity in the video.... just bf4..... I'm not watching the rest, 2 minutes was enough..

starscreamuk
This.

Less than 20 seconds into the video, no point since he plays a totally other game.

As they say: pics or it never happened.



Wow u2 have no Clue,If you know of him (as to watching his vids )he knows what the hell he's talking.
RecklessOnion1
BE Enlisted: 2013-07-28
2015-07-01 20:05 , edited 2015-07-01 20:09 by RecklessOnion1
lol now a fmg9 nerf.. lets just go down the list and turn every gun to shit, next up the p90!

But hey guy's, we are not so much about nerfing, more about bringing under-performers up! why do i keep believing devs :')
ludachriss123
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-30
2015-07-01 20:36 , edited 2015-07-01 20:38 by ludachriss123
Im Guessing that one of the Devs keeps getting dead to the FMG9 so he wants a nerf as not any posts i can find asking for the nerf of it shame really it is going to go the same way as the MPX useless unless you stand behind someone with the gun to someones head.

and when the nerf hits and everyone changes to the P90 it will get nerfed in XP3.
bizerker21
US Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2015-07-01 20:36
RecklessOnion1 said:
lol now a fmg9 nerf.. lets just go down the list and turn every gun to shit, next up the p90!

But hey guy's, we are not so much about nerfing, more about bringing under-performers up! why do i keep believing devs :')


...because deep down you love the devs and realize it is just as easy to pick another weapon in the arsenal to put in your loadout.
Axierastos
RS Enlisted: 2014-02-13
2015-07-02 21:18 , edited 2015-07-02 21:19 by Axierastos
ludachriss123 said:
Im Guessing that one of the Devs keeps getting dead to the FMG9 so he wants a nerf as not any posts i can find asking for the nerf of it shame really it is going to go the same way as the MPX useless unless you stand behind someone with the gun to someones head.

and when the nerf hits and everyone changes to the P90 it will get nerfed in XP3.


You got it. After all, it is hard-line about feelings in this theatre.
VG_Domination
Enlisted: 2012-04-15
2015-07-02 21:54
VG_Domination said:
Didnt mean to cause a shit storm. But i guess we all know how battlelog forums go... thanks for the in depth responses though Zachulon. Its nice to see that you play a good amount also. The game is great and weapon balance is great in my opinion... But about those damn armored inserts lol. Any possibility we will see a nerf of some type in the future? Maybe a mobility nerf or even more flinching when being shot? Doesnt necessarily have to be a nerf to the damage it absorbs but something would be nice. I like the idea of it causing less mobility since that would make sense. I only bring this up since tracers have downfalls as well which is understandable because its dlc content but jesus those armored insert engis are tanks.

Hey Zachulon since you are responding to everyone thats butthurt can you give me an fn answer? ARE YOU ALL PLANNING ON NERFING ARMORED INSERTS OR NOT??? because they fu***** need it god d*****. Weapons are fine but you all did mess up on some, who cares. You all really messed up on AI though so please give me an answer.
Zormau
DE Enlisted: 2011-12-19
2015-07-03 19:25
VG_Domination said:
Hey Zachulon since you are responding to everyone thats butthurt can you give me an fn answer? ARE YOU ALL PLANNING ON NERFING ARMORED INSERTS OR NOT??? because they fu***** need it god d*****. Weapons are fine but you all did mess up on some, who cares. You all really messed up on AI though so please give me an answer.

The armored insert received an indirect nerf through the addition of a hard counter (AP tracers).
Bossman1794
IE Enlisted: 2012-11-08
2015-07-03 19:27
Zormau said:
VG_Domination said:
Hey Zachulon since you are responding to everyone thats butthurt can you give me an fn answer? ARE YOU ALL PLANNING ON NERFING ARMORED INSERTS OR NOT??? because they fu***** need it god d*****. Weapons are fine but you all did mess up on some, who cares. You all really messed up on AI though so please give me an answer.
The armored insert received an indirect nerf through the addition of a hard counter (AP tracers).


Worth mentioning that it's essentially behind a paywall (It's included in the Criminal Activity DLC). Great job Visceral!!
Jubeast
CA Enlisted: 2012-07-10
2015-07-15 08:49
Bossman1794 said:
Zormau said:
VG_Domination said:
Hey Zachulon since you are responding to everyone thats butthurt can you give me an fn answer? ARE YOU ALL PLANNING ON NERFING ARMORED INSERTS OR NOT??? because they fu***** need it god d*****. Weapons are fine but you all did mess up on some, who cares. You all really messed up on AI though so please give me an answer.
The armored insert received an indirect nerf through the addition of a hard counter (AP tracers).
Worth mentioning that it's essentially behind a paywall (It's included in the Criminal Activity DLC). Great job Visceral!!
Probably a bug but you can get ap tracer rounds free on battelog> loadouts.
 
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