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Player Feedback Requested - What's your opinion?

dirtydeathdog
US Inscrito: 2014-04-15
2015-08-16 19:25
Hi everyone,

I've got a list of changes I'd like to put in front of the design and production teams, but I want your feedback first. Please feel free to contribute your thoughts!

NOTE: These are not guaranteed, there's no ETA, etc. as usual. I haven't discussed this with the team yet and I'm not even sure they are all possible! Finding time to do all or any of this might not be in the cards, but let's discuss anyway.

These are some thoughts I've had while playing the game over the last couple of weeks - I want to get a sense if you, the players, think these are good ideas or not. A lot of them are derived from conversations and observations I've made while playing with you all. I'm also interested to get a sense of what you would pick if only ONE of these ideas could be implemented - what's the most important change to you?


*Please stay on topic, non-constructive posts will be removed. No insults, flaming, etc.*


GAMEPLAY CHANGES:

- Change the weapon licenses to 500 kills. I know the hard-core guys who's gotten 10 or so of these already will be unhappy, but this could potentially broaden the weapon set for more players. I'm curious to hear opinion on this - I already know that some members of the team don't agree with this.

- Up the damage on the RO933 to 24 damage minimum. Right now it's probably not quite powerful enough for a starting weapon.

- Increase the time between shots on DMRs by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess.

- Increase the time between shots on the Scout Elite by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. Or should it get a min damage decrease to 50 instead - what are your thoughts?

- Remove the PSHT sound from the DMRs. Should it be gone from the game in general - or be on the AWM/R700 only?

- Change IRNV to not work on daylight maps. Right now it's a ubiquitous scope choice and reduces the stealth aspects.

- Change the Elite camo so that it does not show up in IRNV or FLIR. Being more visible to the naked eye should have a trade-off, and this seems like a good one. FLIR is also pretty ubiquitous and it would be nice to have a counter. Don't know if this is realistically possible, but I like the idea.

- Make the smoke grenade block FLIR and IRNV scopes. Another counter to the IRNV and FLIR scopes. Are three nerfs for these scopes too many? Perhaps - what do you think?

- Set up the Pistols Only experience for server admins who want to run this as Official or Ranked. This disables everything but Pistols and the Knife - no gadgets, no grenades, no primary weapons, no melee weapons other than knife, no stun gun.

- Disable the "No Dead Chat" from the default server settings in Rescue and Crosshair. This would mean that dead players could chat to live players via text chat on PC.


^^


My purpose isn't to create a "democratic vote" process - if you have a well-reasoned argument for debate, supported by good ideas, you're much more likely to impact the process than just saying "I LIKE THIS" or "I HATE THIS".

Let's go! Drop some logic bombs :)
DDD Twitter: @dirtydeathdog
HARMONIZER1234
US Inscrito: 2011-10-25
2015-08-16 19:33 , editado 2015-08-16 19:43 por HARMONIZER1234
I say yes to all of the ideas. If you can't make them all happen I Think that the priority would to be get the weapon license down to 500 kills. 1250 is just too high for the average player. And it discourages the player to use a variety of weapons because they have to put so many hours into one weapon just to get the license. Getting the gold camo before the weapon license just doesn't make sense to me. By the time you get the weapon license there's nothing to strive for and you don't even want to use that weapon anymore. Well that's my two cents. Thanks for your continuous support for Hardline!!
A_WakeSkate
US Inscrito: 2011-10-24
2015-08-16 19:36 , editado 2015-08-16 19:38 por A_WakeSkate
All of the above sound pretty good....

I really like the change to IRNV, you should also include the FLIR. Neither should work on day maps.....
Liquid cooled I7 950 @ 3.66 / 12gb pc 1600 / EVGA GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2 3gb + 27in Samsung SA550 / 2xOCZ Vertex3/2 Vertex2 (=4) 60gb raid0 OS/programs / 750 GB WD Black for storage / X-FI Titanium+5.1 headset / Razer Lycosa+Mamba
LOSSSY
IE Inscrito: 2013-07-25
2015-08-16 19:39
They all sound good Thad ! I especially like the weapon license change idea, it'd make getting those licenses a little more achievable :D
TheYagiMann
SE Inscrito: 2013-02-19
2015-08-16 19:43
I think these are amazing changes. I think changing the weapon license to 500 kills helps out, not only the Hardcore players but it could also cater to the more casual player. All in all I love the sound of these changes.
YagiMannBF
xpc_absol
SE Inscrito: 2011-10-24
2015-08-16 19:52 , editado 2015-08-16 19:59 por xpc_absol
Thanks for starting this focused feedback initiative Thad!

GAMEPLAY CHANGES:

- Change the weapon licenses to 500 kills. YES
I think this is a good idea. It is already a bit complicated to switch teams all the time to keep going towards 1000+ kills.
It is also easier to encourage people to pick up different guns if they can anticipate how long they'll have to play with them.
You will naturally reach 500 in a reasonable time, and this even opens up for more objective (less kill oriented) play styles.

- Up the damage on the RO933 to 24 damage minimum. MAYBE
If we look at the current max-min damage model, it has 20-12. The 12 min damage is what kills this weapon for me.
I would suggest using the Battlefield 3 ACW-R damage which was 20-16.7 damage. Same RPM. Maybe even 24-17.

- Increase the time between shots on DMRs by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. MAYBE
Sure it is annoying to deal with DMRs. But mostly due to the badly designed shot direction indicator when getting hit.
If you are really going to lower the fire rate potential of these weapons, at least consider a bundled 50-34 damage model.

- Increase the time between shots on the Scout Elite by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. Or min damage 50? YES
I think both choices could be implemented at the same time. The ease of use is enough to stay competitive with the others.

- Remove the PSHT sound from the DMRs. YES
Should it be gone from the game in general - or be on the AWM/R700 only? PSHT should only be on AWM/R700 for now.

- Change IRNV to not work on daylight maps. YES It is too easy to obtain and offers better visibility in most situations.

- Change the Elite camo so that it does not show up in IRNV or FLIR? YES

- Make smoke grenade block FLIR and IRNVscopes? If daylight only counters IRNV, smoke should only counter FLIR.

- Set up the Pistols Only experience for server admins who want to run this as Official or Ranked. GOOD

- Disable the "No Dead Chat" from the default server settings in Rescue and Crosshair? I don't have an opinion on this yet.

------------------------------------------------------

Another thing that bothers me and discourages me from playing Hardline is that the M1A1 is so underpowered. Way worse than the UMP. This makes me worried that the upcoming weapons won't be worth grinding out, and that the M16A3 and the HK416 will never get a range or starting damage nerf at all. I'd love to see something like chain link in Hardline as well!
JamieNoonZ
US Inscrito: 2012-05-10
2015-08-16 19:53
This all sounds great but its missing one thing and one thing only that myself and many others refused to play the game - MAKE THE TTK THE SAME BF4. Thats all this game really needs is just the TTK and keep balancing the weapons.
XanSaibotMK
RU Inscrito: 2011-10-27
2015-08-16 19:57 , editado 2015-08-16 20:06 por XanSaibotMK
JamieNoonZ said:
This all sounds great but its missing one thing and one thing only that myself and many others refused to play the game - MAKE THE TTK THE SAME BF4. Thats all this game really needs is just the TTK and keep balancing the weapons.

What? Game flows much faster itself, and fast TTK is reasonable for Hardline.
I like all changes which are listed above. Especially pistol servers.
One thing though: licenses. Its ok to lower requirments to 500 kills. But i think that licences for secondaries need to be lowered too, for example, 200 - 300 kills.
PraiseTheSatan
808Wildling
DE Inscrito: 2012-05-01
2015-08-16 20:00
Im unsure about the weapon license changes but the changes to the weapons seem solid
the RO currently is like EH - why would I use it. ever, but bringing it in line with the ARs would undermine its place as Carbine rather than an AR. maybe increase the damage to 20? no need to go the full AR way, especially for such an accurate starter weapon

a reduction AND the removal of pssh-pssh-pssh seems nice, but Id rather have their damage decreased than taking away the ROF they have.
for the sound-issue, maybe you could make a system that determines the intensitiy of the sound based on how close to the head the bullets miss. close headshots still do the full PSSSHHT but shooting a bit further away or missing at arm or leg height plays a drastically lowered volume one.

A scout nerf is in order, thats for sure, but I doubt reducing the firerate would do it any good. Maybe start the dropoff at a little bit more than 30m to get it close to the other bolt-action rifles and lower min damage to something below 50 to prevent the scout having an unfair headshot-oneshot advantage over the other, slower firing bolt action should a sniper battle occur. This will keep it as strong mid-range rifle but reduce its effectivity where the other two BA-Rifles should have an advantage.

The change of Elite camo is very welcome, although I prefer to run stealth anyway. In the words of shia : DO IT !

Changes to the INRV to not work in daylight are nice, but my main concern is the FLIR which seems to be standart on even ARs regarless of map. Maybe reduce its range of detecing enemy players. Both IRNV and FLIR should still be able to see through smoke as would their IRL counterparts

Server settings for pistol/knife only do not concern me so im neutral. Keeping the No Dead chat in the competetive modes is a must imo
booty polis
A_WakeSkate
US Inscrito: 2011-10-24
2015-08-16 20:01
JamieNoonZ said:
This all sounds great but its missing one thing and one thing only that myself and many others refused to play the game - MAKE THE TTK THE SAME BF4. Thats all this game really needs is just the TTK and keep balancing the weapons.


Ummm....... NO

This is not BF4!
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DestronDeadEnd
Inscrito: 2014-01-21
2015-08-16 20:03
I'd agree with everything here. These changes would serve to make Hardline a better, more enjoyable experience. Also promotes weapon variety. +1.
supernarfa
Inscrito: 2013-05-13
2015-08-16 20:04 , editado 2015-08-16 20:07 por supernarfa
All those sound like great options, in all honesty. Check out the MAC10 damage and revisit the changes to the MPX and K10.

Mac10 needs toned down and something needs to be done to even out the damage drop offs for the K10 and MPX so it's not 14 bullets to kill at twenty feet.

Also, put a freaking blast radius on the grenades so it's not instant death within ten meters.
younghoff67
US Inscrito: 2011-10-25
2015-08-16 20:07
GAMEPLAY CHANGES:

- Change the weapon licenses to 500 kills. I know the hard-core guys who's gotten 10 or so of these already will be unhappy, but this could potentially broaden the weapon set for more players. I'm curious to hear opinion on this - I already know that some members of the team don't agree with this. - SURE WHY NOT

- Up the damage on the RO933 to 24 damage minimum. Right now it's probably not quite powerful enough for a starting weapon. = SURE WHY NOT

- Increase the time between shots on DMRs by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. - SURE NP

- Increase the time between shots on the Scout Elite by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. Or should it get a min damage decrease to 50 instead - what are your thoughts? - THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN

- Remove the PSHT sound from the DMRs. Should it be gone from the game in general - or be on the AWM/R700 only? - YES

- Change IRNV to not work on daylight maps. Right now it's a ubiquitous scope choice and reduces the stealth aspects. - YES

- Change the Elite camo so that it does not show up in IRNV or FLIR. Being more visible to the naked eye should have a trade-off, and this seems like a good one. FLIR is also pretty ubiquitous and it would be nice to have a counter. Don't know if this is realistically possible, but I like the idea. - IF IT CAN BE DONE SURE

- Make the smoke grenade block FLIR and IRNV scopes. Another counter to the IRNV and FLIR scopes. Are three nerfs for these scopes too many? Perhaps - what do you think? - YES IF IT CAN HAPPEN

- Set up the Pistols Only experience for server admins who want to run this as Official or Ranked. This disables everything but Pistols and the Knife - no gadgets, no grenades, no primary weapons, no melee weapons other than knife, no stun gun. - IM COOL WITH THIS IDEA

- Disable the "No Dead Chat" from the default server settings in Rescue and Crosshair. This would mean that dead players could chat to live players via text chat on PC. - THIS REALLY DOESNT AFFECT ME AS I AM ON CONSOLE BUT ON CONSOLE WE CAN STILL TALK TO LIVE GUYS SO I GUESS IT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME

You guys really need to address the MAC 10, its a secondary that is being run as a primary allllllllllll the time.
xHECTiQ
DE Inscrito: 2013-11-06
2015-08-16 20:08
- Change the ROF of the Mac 10

- Buff the MPX

Your list of changes sounds pretty damn good, make sure to make these changes quick!
colers25
BE Inscrito: 2013-12-01
2015-08-16 20:13 , editado 2015-08-16 20:47 por colers25
License change:

Hell yes. Most people only have a scant amount of weapons above 500 kills anyway. However, the number of 1250 is something that doesn't hurt the people who are actually very likely to reach it, and penalizes completionists who will leave the game, because guess what, nobody wants to use the Saiga .308 for 1250 kills or roughly 18 hours in game. For people like me, getting a weapon licence is absolutely backwards because it means putting so much time into using a single gun that once you get the required kills you never want to touch it again. Not to mention, as a completionist, there is nothing that would ever encourage me to go back to a weapon of which i already have the gold skin

Frankly, the entire faction split was a bad idea to start with; it could've have worked if the game and its assets where built up on this principle but the backwards faction assignment of some weapons clearly point out the obvious opposite of that (UMP and P90 being criminal *cough*). There is nothing thematical about most of the weapons. Better luck next time, i say.

And honestly, i doubt that anyone among your team who is opposed to it hasn't tried to get a licence for more than 1 weapon, or, more importantly, for the weapon that isn't their favorite.


RO933:

I really, really couldn't ever wrap my head around the way you went about tweaking the RO. It was underpowered at first, so then you lowered the recoil. but god knows why, you also lowered the damage making it a pea shooter. I think going full with 25 damage and giving it 900 ROF would be the way to go, but just lower its accuracy by a considerable amount. Make it a gun that a new guy can use to just get in the game and feel as if he can get some good kills with it. But 900 is a good peace offering i guess.....


DMR's: Depends; i recommend doing so on the pistol-grip ones, but don't do it on the SOCOM and Saiga. If anything, the Saiga needs a buff to make up for its abysmal muzzle velocity (personally i'd recommend tightening its hipfire spread by 33% giving it its own niche and greatly setting it apart from the SOCOM).

Snipers:

I'd say the Scout Elite is pretty good at it is, but it has one thing that should be rectified; It isn't the problem that it can be spammed, the problem is that the gun rewards it. I'd recommend lowering its max damage to 60 (significantly toning down the issue it generates in Hardcore) and make the drop start a lot faster, and then have a min damage of 45, meaning it can no longer 2-shot on longer ranges. This thing is designed to be used in a 80 meter range, and sniper headshot multipliers should ensure it is still good after its minimum drop.

FLIR: don't see them that often, really. Their lowered FoV and their allergy towards laser pointers should balance htem out quite well.






Anyways, there are a couple more issues i want to remind you of/bring to your attention:


1). if symthic is to be believed, the L85 is bugged senseless. Its SIPS is out of the roof, and any attachment accuracy test on symthic shows a ridiculous bloom. Also, any excuse as to why the L85 doesn't have the long-range round yet while being the long-range specialized assault rifle?

2). the M16/M416 issues is still rampant. And destroying mid-range weapons (by adding a living ton of Hrec and Vrec, the last one btw only made them harder to master) on their mid range capability while the real issue is their intrusion in carbine territory due to having objectively by far the best damage model out of the 2 for 30m range engagements. Many people say the damage drop is the issue but in reality, they should always be bested by carbines within their respective territory and the hipfire of carbines is merely a crutch to balance them. They need 24 max damage, and have its recoil brought back to where it used to be. Yes, it will anger a lot of tryhards, but ultimately, you will overcome the biggest complaint in the game, and frankly, might get a couple of hundred people back playing.

3). the CAR still has its weird out-of-place damage model

4). The HCAR could use some love; most people actually wanted this gun to have character; how about making it live up to its title as heavy hitter (the one it had in levelcaps closed beta preview) and the .30-60 round and giving it a more fun damage model like 49-33 or perhaps even 50-34 (which would require its old recoil back for balance sake). Not many people want to use the HCAR anyway, so giving it some character, even if it won't make it more popular, will only benefit weapon diversity as a whole

5). You went overboard with the MPX and now its like a poor MP5K with a bigger magazine. K10 too. Its damage model was never an issue; its issue was the .4 accuracy which should have been something around 1 or even 1.5

Anyway, the screw up on your end is that you tried to balance this weapons for the sake of balancing them. A weapon that does its intended job while not infringing upon the job of other weapons (which is why versatile weapons are so hard to balance) are almost impossible to imbalance. If they are imbalanced, try to see what job they do that they are not supposed to do instead of just tweaking some stats until it feels worse/better. This gave us the HCAR, the M's, the MPX and K10 in their current half/fixed state. The HCAR should have been a heavy hitter, the M's should have been objectively worse at CQB than carbines, the MPX shouldn't have been such a viable close range option while also having superior long range damage and the K10 never should have been able to spray down people that are 40 meters away from your with any level of accuracy. Never nerf just to nerf. Only lower/take away functions that it isn't intended to sport, and nothing else. A tool should do its job, so don't chip them in the area they rely on



You really, really have to actually, truly adress the M issue. No matter how much recoil you add to them, they will still out-play carbines in their superior area (this being 12-30m, the area before that being SMG land), and that has been, and will remain to be the issue that has broken the entire Operator weapon selection
Giorgos78
GR Inscrito: 2011-10-25
2015-08-16 20:34 , editado 2015-08-16 20:37 por Giorgos78
the irnv-flir is too pwerfoul. the solution is to add shine on the scope.
For night maps it would be used to scan the area.

In order to prevent that, you should change to x8 scope on irnv on every weapon (exept to sniper rifles and dmr, they will have x4), so it would be dificult to aim at midium close range with irnv.

After 50 meters the bulet spread should be enormus if IRNV FLIR is equiped
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IronWolf42
US Inscrito: 2013-10-05
2015-08-16 20:35
I really like the idea of lowering the amount of kills needed to get a weapon license. Maybe 750 instead of 500? I have always thought that the Scout Elite fired too fast, so nerfing the fire rate is a good thing. As for buffing the damage of the RO933, bad idea IMO. And I really hate the idea of the Elite Camo (or any camo) having an ability like hiding from INRV or FLIR, but I wouldn't mind seeing something that could in a DLC. All the rest of the changes are fine with me, I don't use FLIR, INRV or voice chat.

P.S. I get killed by both the Scout Elite and RO933 VERY often.
ZiP1965
GB Inscrito: 2011-10-24
2015-08-16 20:37
PC 3,239 people playing this game right now as i write this message .

What visceral games should be asking is why is there so few players ? on PC .

For me the game died as fast as it started the bugs never got fix ie stuttering bad frame drops ,

Maybe my pc don't meet required system spec's lool ,


OS:WIN 10 pro
Asus ROG Swift PG278Q 27 G-SYNC READY 144hz 2560x1440p
BenQ XL2720T 27" TRUE 120hz 1920x1080p
Evga x99 classified
Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card
CPU: 5960X
GFX: 2X980 Ref: Cards
RAM: 16GB DDR4 3000hz
SSD: Samsung 840 PRO
SSD: 2X OCZ AGILITY 3
Evga 1200watt super nova
KeyBoard Ducky DK-9087 Shine 3 TKL
Mouse Zowie FK2

"SpeedTest" http://www.speedtest.net/result/3809351685.png [speedtest.net]
"Pingtest" http://www.pingtest.net/result/107715161.png [pingtest.net]
morbidone76
US Inscrito: 2015-04-21
2015-08-16 20:37 , editado 2015-08-16 20:41 por morbidone76
GAMEPLAY CHANGES:

- Change the weapon licenses to 500 kills. I know the hard-core guys who's gotten 10 or so of these already will be unhappy, but this could potentially broaden the weapon set for more players. I'm curious to hear opinion on this - I already know that some members of the team don't agree with this. - Maybe

I don't mind it the way it is but fine either way. I think secondaries should definitely be reduced to 500 kills

- Up the damage on the RO933 to 24 damage minimum. Right now it's probably not quite powerful enough for a starting weapon. Sure

- Increase the time between shots on DMRs by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. Yes 50%

- Increase the time between shots on the Scout Elite by 25-50%. Reduce the spamminess. Or should it get a min damage decrease to 50 instead - what are your thoughts? Yes 25% to 50% fire rate reduction

- Remove the PSHT sound from the DMRs. Should it be gone from the game in general - or be on the AWM/R700 only? Yes. DMRS

- Change IRNV to not work on daylight maps. Right now it's a ubiquitous scope choice and reduces the stealth aspects. Sure

- Change the Elite camo so that it does not show up in IRNV or FLIR. Being more visible to the naked eye should have a trade-off, and this seems like a good one. FLIR is also pretty ubiquitous and it would be nice to have a counter. Don't know if this is realistically possible, but I like the idea. No opinion

- Make the smoke grenade block FLIR and IRNV scopes. Another counter to the IRNV and FLIR scopes. Are three nerfs for these scopes too many? Perhaps - what do you think? No

- Set up the Pistols Only experience for server admins who want to run this as Official or Ranked. This disables everything but Pistols and the Knife - no gadgets, no grenades, no primary weapons, no melee weapons other than knife, no stun gun. Sure

- Disable the "No Dead Chat" from the default server settings in Rescue and Crosshair. This would mean that dead players could chat to live players via text chat on PC. I play on console so doesn't affect me at all

Other changes that I see could/should be addressed:

Mac10 - Either the fire rate or damage model needs to change or some combination of the two. The way it is now is broken. It is more powerful than most primaries

The MPX could use a slight rebuff. Maybe the K10 as well. The last changes went a little too far in my opinion

Under map players. This is being taken advantage of and either the glitches need to be fixed or the players banned
NiceDrewishFella
US Inscrito: 2011-10-25
2015-08-16 20:39
I like it DeathDog.

I would disagree on the weapons licenses, I feel 500 is too low and I like that you don't see the same weapons game after game.



Lower the RoF on the Scout for sure. It's gotten out of hand. The DMRS need the ROF reduction as well. Consider having them look at the Mac10, I bet a statistical analysis of its use would confirm it has become a problem.

Consider a damage increase to the L85A2 as well, it's just about as weak as the RO933.

Also, us it too much to ask that completing a Community Challenge would put $100,000 in my actual bank account? ;-)
"Winning is only half of it. Having fun is the other half." Bum Phillips
 
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