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UAV is unbalanced

Kestrel_Hudson
RU Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-11-28 19:51 , edited 2013-11-28 20:01 by Kestrel_Hudson
I really dislike current situation with the commander mode. The most annoying but not that obvious thing about it is UAV. Now we all remember that there was UAV in BF2 and constant wave of "Enemy infantry spotted". Let's look little closer to that.

BF2 clearly had larger maps (Dragon Valley, Clean Sweep, Daqiun Oilfields and so on), which isn't actualy a big deal. But generealy (if we are talking about 64 player BF2 map vs Conquest Large BF4 map / 32 player BF2 map vs Conqust BF4 map) there was a larger amount of flags for a map given. Generaly those flags were spreaded much wider than what we can see in B 4. There was a logical reason to have UAV - overall spread of players was thinner and usually there were no one close to a number of flags after they get captured, so commander should have had an eye on them, otherwise they would ended up being captured by enemy faster, then anyone of your team could get near them. UAV was a good tool, it could highlight a large area around a flag but at the same time this area was rather small in comparassion to the map itself. It could help outnumbered teammembers to win a battle over a flag, highlight enemies that trying to flank and so on. It took some time for UAV to cool down so it was balanced, and overall it was very useful. And a commander in BF 2 was a usual player as everybody else, so he had to look for some cover before dive himself into all this UAV-artillery-spotting thing.

Now in BF4 a commander isn't phisicly in the game. He couldn't get killed, he don't have to move around a map, his basic abilities couldn't get disabled - so basicly he has nothing to worry about aside his thing. Maps are smaller, flags are closer to each other, players spread is much thicker. And what about UAV? It's area of effect is almost as large as it was in BF2 and it's cooldown period is about 1 or 2 seconds which is almost nonexistent. It isn't that bad if both team have a commander (but don't get me wrong, it's still bad). But if there is only one commander it's a foul play for an opposing team. It's like large area of the map is always highlighted, players of one team are always located by enemies first and they always outgunned. They lose flag by flag because of that and commander gets more of his toys - the team loses even more miserably.

I don't think that crusie missle is overpowered (it gives you a warning and it has some cooldown period), or any other commander's ability is but UAV (well, maybe gunship, but you don't see it very often).

UAV needs some balancing.
CharlieSix
Enlisted: 2013-10-04
2013-11-29 10:23 , edited 2013-11-29 10:28 by CharlieSix
Completely 100% agree. The UAV is a major problem in the game. The cooldown is 1 second long, and each UAV lasts 10 seconds. And apparently, it takes at least two IGLAS to destroy the UAV (stingers don't have the range). After the UAV goes down, it can be respawned in 1 second! So a single IGLAS would spend probably around 8 seconds to shoot down a UAV. That would provide just a 3 second UAV-free airspace.

The game even recommends you shoot the UAV down sometimes. Audio will say "Enemy UAV is above us! SHOOT IT DOWN!"

But why would you bother? For a 3 second UAV-free clear airspace? It would cost you 2 IGLAS rounds that would be better spent on aircraft.

On small maps like the prison locker map, UAVs typically spot 80% of the enemy team for you... AT ALL TIMES THROUGHOUT THE MATCH. This contributes to this map's chokepoint problems. There are plenty of ways to flank enemies in this map, but flanking is often pointless if you can see people flanking you on the mini-map.

To make matters worse, the UAV can't even be missile locked by fighter jets' heatseekers for some reason. I don't think heli heatseekers can lock either. No idea why DICE wanted it this way.

Being a commander and deploying UAVs isn't even fun. At all. It's extremely repetitive and tedious, and yet it is extremely useful to your team. On small maps like the prison break level, there's nothing the commander can do that is remotely interesting. All he can do is repeatedly deploy the UAV, usually at the same spots of the map over and over. It requires no skill, no thinking.

It's repetitive and tedious because the UAV only lasts 10 seconds, and has almost no cooldown after it is done, so every 10 seconds you have to deploy another UAV.

SUGGESTIONS TO DICE (please listen!! thank you!)
1. Significantly increase the cooldown for UAV deployment. I think at least to 30 seconds. 1 minute cooldown would be fine with me.
2. Scale the UAV sensor range with the map-size. So on the prison locker map, the UAV range would be much smaller than it is on the bigger maps.
If that's too much trouble to program, just remove the commander mode entirely from small maps like that.

Overall, the Commander mode needs a huge overhaul.
traveltheory
US Enlisted: 2011-10-31
2013-11-29 10:30
The UAV is kind of a problem, it is a bit difficult to shoot down.

I think the bigger problem is the way the minimap works and the way in turn, the UAV works.

Firing or being spotted gives away your position down to the nanometer. Players can simply stare at it and run to wherever they see red.

Wouldn't be better if the range on it was limited to those within a reasonable distance of the player?with a sweep that is bright for a second and fades and a limited range, players would only get a general idea of where to go, not a GPS coordinates of an enemy.



Just my opinion.
ThatDutchIdiot
NL Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-11-29 10:31
Change the times

Make it last for 20 seconds instead of 10 and make the cooldown about a minute.

That way a Commander has to actually think where he wants to support the team.
Hawxxeye
GR Enlisted: 2012-02-10
2013-11-29 10:35 , edited 2013-11-29 10:36 by Hawxxeye
I hate the UAV

In smaller maps or rush it can pretty much keep the entire enemy team spotted on the map. It is absurd.

As a commander I see the UAV spamming as more of a chore than something I feel a good commander for.

I also dislike having no presence in the game as a commander. Making the commander an ethereal being in order to cater tablets was the most stupid thing.
"People on the internet believe that in reality their opinion is fantastic! Its the best thing in the world! Its gold! You could sell it. You could eat for a year by selling just one of their fantastic opinions!" By TotalBiscuit
Sizzlakko
DE Enlisted: 2012-10-19
2013-11-29 10:39
Not gonna happen.
TheyHaveScissors
Enlisted: 2011-11-09
2013-11-29 10:44
Cooldown on all commander assets is way too short.
CharlieSix
Enlisted: 2013-10-04
2013-11-29 10:46
Yeah, commander mode should simply be removed entirely from Rush mode, IMO. The A and B points are always very close to each other. The UAV will spot almost everyone in the game because of this. It makes the suppressors' "no minimap appearance" feature useless too.
Hawxxeye
GR Enlisted: 2012-02-10
2013-11-29 10:47 , edited 2013-11-29 10:50 by Hawxxeye
CharlieSix said:
Yeah, commander mode should simply be removed entirely from Rush mode, IMO. The A and B points are always very close to each other. The UAV will spot almost everyone in the game because of this. It makes the suppressors' "no minimap appearance" feature useless too.

And the anti motion sensor perk. Any notion of stealth is thrown down the drain.
I was expecting to give real fire support to my team as a commander along with USEFUL vehicles and not being a UAV spam bot
"People on the internet believe that in reality their opinion is fantastic! Its the best thing in the world! Its gold! You could sell it. You could eat for a year by selling just one of their fantastic opinions!" By TotalBiscuit
tarekTN
TN Enlisted: 2013-03-20
2013-11-29 10:51
YES i hate it that you cant flank at all when you try to flank 10 people ar running towards you...or ad a perk that makes your complete invisible to drones it just sucks
airrunkle
US Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-29 10:57
Maybe instead of UAV on Rush, commander can be given 3 para-drop points like the points in Obliteration mode. These points can be dropped once each per entire round of Rush. This would add a tactical advantage, and perhaps the commander gets points every time someone spawns from their para-drop point. If it's already used in Obliteration, why not adapt it to solve a problem with how ridiculous UAV's are in Rush?
DatMortumee
FR Enlisted: 2012-09-08
2013-11-29 11:09
I don't mind the 1 second cooldown, just make the UAV last at least 30 seconds, so you can't move it so often, and you'll have to think before deploying it.
And add a simple feature : if the UAV is destroyed by AA / Aircraft, extend the cooldown to a minute or so, it should give players more incentive to take them down.
VikDOOMx
CA Enlisted: 2013-01-07
2013-11-29 11:32 , edited 2013-11-29 11:32 by VikDOOMx
Just make the UAV have the same cooldown and duration as the EMP.
Also, on test range you can take down the UAVs in the jet, so it's clearly DICE who disabled it. They probably didnt want people to boost jet kills with them before they release Air Superiority.
DatMortumee
FR Enlisted: 2012-09-08
2013-11-29 17:48
VikDoomX said:
Just make the UAV have the same cooldown and duration as the EMP.
Also, on test range you can take down the UAVs in the jet, so it's clearly DICE who disabled it. They probably didnt want people to boost jet kills with them before they release Air Superiority.

You can also destroy them in game, not only in the test range. They are worth 25 points iirc.
TheGendoTrain
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-29
2013-11-29 17:54
UAV should be removed from things like Rush I must say, or make it take longer to recharge/obtain.
mad3hojo
US Enlisted: 2012-08-21
2013-11-29 18:04
Commander mode is almost entirely useless and is completely reliant on whether or not your team is skilled. A skilled team will most likely win regardless of a commander and an unskilled team will not win if they get a commander. Please stop complaining about a mode that needs serious buffs to be anything other than useless and definitely stop complaining about the only thing the Commander can use which might actually help if the team is losing.

If you've not played commander then you should try, you'll quickly realize I'm right, especially since anything other than the UAV requires your team to be in control of certain points and/or following your orders/capping points. Again the UAV is the only thing the commander has which he can deploy to help the team if they are losing.
DON'T HATE, RESUSCITATE!
Kestrel_Hudson
RU Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-11-29 20:07 , edited 2013-11-29 20:10 by Kestrel_Hudson
mad3hojo said:
Commander mode is almost entirely useless and is completely reliant on whether or not your team is skilled. A skilled team will most likely win regardless of a commander and an unskilled team will not win if they get a commander. Please stop complaining about a mode that needs serious buffs to be anything other than useless and definitely stop complaining about the only thing the Commander can use which might actually help if the team is losing.

If you've not played commander then you should try, you'll quickly realize I'm right, especially since anything other than the UAV requires your team to be in control of certain points and/or following your orders/capping points. Again the UAV is the only thing the commander has which he can deploy to help the team if they are losing.


Well, I've played as commander both in BF2 and BF4. As I've pointed out earlier commander's abilities in BF2 couldn't have been used as often, as they are in BF4 (particulary UAV). But a good commander was actualy very useful and could have changed the flow of a battle and turn lose to win, if he communicated with squad leaders, kept an eye on them, spot enemies in time and so on.

You've described only two extremes, but there are a lot of different situations between them. In the game nothing is that simple. What if one team is slightly better then the other, and weaker one would've managed putting some good resistence, but the other one happens to have a commander? What if both teams are equally skilled?

I could tell one thing for sure - always having a knowledge where your enemy is located (if he don't posses the same knowledge) is a huge advantage over him. That's why there are these tools in the game, which are either not easy to operate or have limited capabilities - such as T-UGS, Supressor, MAV etc. These things should be limited or should have some weaknesses, or something you could counter them etc. And they are, but it's not the case with UAV.

It's too bad for a commander if he has nothing to do and no way to score but launch UAVs. But by satisfying one player half of players suffer.
Maybe the whole mode should be rebalanced to satisfy everyone. I don't have a clear answer for that.
mad3hojo
US Enlisted: 2012-08-21
2013-11-29 20:51
Kestrel_Hudson said:
mad3hojo said:
Commander mode is almost entirely useless and is completely reliant on whether or not your team is skilled. A skilled team will most likely win regardless of a commander and an unskilled team will not win if they get a commander. Please stop complaining about a mode that needs serious buffs to be anything other than useless and definitely stop complaining about the only thing the Commander can use which might actually help if the team is losing.

If you've not played commander then you should try, you'll quickly realize I'm right, especially since anything other than the UAV requires your team to be in control of certain points and/or following your orders/capping points. Again the UAV is the only thing the commander has which he can deploy to help the team if they are losing.
Well, I've played as commander both in BF2 and BF4. As I've pointed out earlier commander's abilities in BF2 couldn't have been used as often, as they are in BF4 (particulary UAV). But a good commander was actualy very useful and could have changed the flow of a battle and turn lose to win, if he communicated with squad leaders, kept an eye on them, spot enemies in time and so on.

You've described only two extremes, but there are a lot of different situations between them. In the game nothing is that simple. What if one team is slightly better then the other, and weaker one would've managed putting some good resistence, but the other one happens to have a commander? What if both teams are equally skilled?

I could tell one thing for sure - always having a knowledge where your enemy is located (if he don't posses the same knowledge) is a huge advantage over him. That's why there are these tools in the game, which are either not easy to operate or have limited capabilities - such as T-UGS, Supressor, MAV etc. These things should be limited or should have some weaknesses, or something you could counter them etc. And they are, but it's not the case with UAV.

It's too bad for a commander if he has nothing to do and no way to score but launch UAVs. But by satisfying one player half of players suffer.
Maybe the whole mode should be rebalanced to satisfy everyone. I don't have a clear answer for that.



I agree that knowing where your enemy is gives you a big advantage and that the UAV can be that advantage. I'm more opposed to "nerfing" the UAV because most other Commander skills are useless or depend on if your team has control of the points or not (and still mostly useless). I think Commander mode needs a complete overhaul.

Commander Mode
1) Uav - Should spot enemies on the minimap and hud who are not in cover or underground
2) Infantry Scan - Should work like the UAV but spot enemies in cover and underground
3) Vehicle Scan - as is
4) Cruise missile needs to be controllable
5) Vehicle drop should be purchased via a point based system (ATV is seriously useless)
6) Commander attacks should be on a point scale to buy, points should accrue over time and be gained by your team completing orders
7) Gunship - needs to cover the entire map and needs to have much better anti-missile systems
8) Commander needs an "End Game" attack, where he can take any point on the map if the enemy controls them all.

I've got a more thought out list somewhere. Also there should be commander servers and non-commander servers.
DON'T HATE, RESUSCITATE!
Kestrel_Hudson
RU Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-11-29 23:54 , edited 2013-11-30 09:21 by Kestrel_Hudson
mad3hojo said:
8) Commander needs an "End Game" attack, where he can take any point on the map if the enemy controls them all.

I really like this idea.

Overall I agree with you, commander isn't that much interesting nor helpful role (UAV aside) at the moment. Maybe overhaul could make it more engaging and it could fulfil its purpose - aidnig players, coordinating them, pushing them to objective and so on.
CharlieSix
Enlisted: 2013-10-04
2013-11-30 00:04
Nerfing the UAV in the short term is a good idea because it currently weakens the tactical element/fun level of the game for far too many players. As Star Trek's Spock says, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Giving the commander an overpowered UAV simply so he has something useful to do doesn't make sense because it damages more people than it helps. 2 people versus 64. Not a good trade off.

In my view, DICE did not balance the commander's abilities correctly. For example, it's somewhat interesting to be able to deploy the EMP UAV and the Proxy Attack feature as a means to stop cruise missiles and destroy AC-130s. But cruise missiles and AC-130s have too long a cooldown, so the commander rarely gets to play with that aspect of the mode. Instead, he is primarily spamming the UAV... over... and over... and over. And there's nothing fun, smart, or challenging about it.

I'd much rather see a buff to Cruise missile and AC-130 deployment than to see the UAV stay in its current state.

I'd be playing BF4 non-stop right now if it wasn't for the UAV issue. I really think it's a huge detriment to the game :(
 
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