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Mobile AA. (Active Radar Missiles)

NemisizZ-DK
DK Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 17:23 , edited 2014-02-24 16:49 by NemisizZ-DK
A second review of the Mobile AA and the Active Radar Missiles.
So after the MAA got a few tweaks and i been playing around with it even more, i think i can say that i find it more balanced now than it was in the start.
but there is still some small balance issues that needs to be addressed and looked into....

MAA vs Jets.
Im sure Jet pilots will disagree on this part, but as i see it then there needs to be something that can be a threat to the Jets and them dominating the maps, a good and intelligent Jet pilot can still go 50-0 if he/she knows how to deal with the MAA and are communicating with their team, i seen that several times, even when the MAA had ARM's equipped.

MAA vs Scout.
I still feel the MAA is a bit out of balance when its head on head with a Scout and the Scout got a full pit crew, its not a big issue, but definitely something that needs to be looked into, a solution to this could be slowing down the repair tools on the Engineers while they are in the Scout Helicopter, removing repair while in flight would be unfair and wont appeal to people who wants to play as a team.

MAA vs Attack Helicopter.
The Attack Heli still have some issues as well that needs to be looked into, such as it being flipped over when being hit by ARM's and PRM's.
I haven't tested this out my self yet, so i don't know if its because the gyro isn't equipped, or if its because the missiles hits to to hard which is causing it to flip over.
Post on Attack Choppers: http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064769335979427/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]

MAA in the mainbase! (Lancang Dam)
The biggest issue that's left in my opinion is that its able to shoot from from main base to main base (Lancang Dam), and being able to hide in the cover of the SAA, this issue definitely needs to be looked into.

A solution could be the ARM and PRM simply wont be able to be fired while its in the safe zone, another could be adding an angle on 15 to 2010 to 15 degrees to the MAA where the ARM's simply wont fire and or work as a dumb fire missile, giving the Helicopters in the enemy base a chance to take off without being hammered down by the ARM's.

15 Degree Angle Dead Zone : http://prntscr.com/29w3eu [prntscr.com]

Of cause, this is just my opinion and thoughts that could make it more balanced. =)
Personally i don't find it "overpowered" anymore, at least not compared to other vehicles, it is way more in balance now than it was in the start.

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Original Post
I been playing with the Mobile AA a few times now, and been using the "Active Radar" heat seekers, and i came to a conclusion, they are way way to overpowered!
Choppers simply stand no chance against them, and in my opinion i think they should be either removed from the game, and or re-balanced.

Just an idea for a re-balancing them.
- Only active over a curtain height. (50-100m over the ground) (This will make them more useful for jets flying out of range)
- Increased reload time, so they cant be spammed. (20 seconds between each set seems to be fair in my opinion.)
- Increased time on weapon change, 5-7 seconds when changing from heat seekers to the main gun.

Cause as they are now they are just way to easy to use, and on top of that way to over powered, 2 hits and the choppers are disabled, and 5 seconds later there are 2 new reloaded and can be fired at the same chopper again, making them an even easier target.
+ The pilots gets no warning until its so close to them they cant react to it with their countermeasures.

Of cause, this is just my opinion, but im sure chopper pilots find these "Active Radar" heat seekers a bit annoying and overpowered.

***************************************************************************************************************************************************

Scout Helicopter.
-- Should not be able to be repaired while in flight.
-- Engineers should have a longer cool down on their repair tools, and or repair slower.
-- Should be able to take 3 to 4 ARM's before blowing up.
-- Should also have a shorter cool down time on the countermeasures.
-- Should not be able to be knocked over by ARM's and PRM's.

Transport Helicopter.
-- Should not be able to be repaired while in flight.
-- Engineers should have a longer cool down on their repair tools, and or repair slower.
-- Should be able to take 5 to 6 ARM's before blowing up.
-- Should also have a shorter cool down time on the countermeasures.
-- Should not be able to be knocked over by ARM's and PRM's.

Attack Helicopter.
-- Should be able to take at least 4 to 6 ARM's before blowing up.
-- Should also have a shorter cool down time on the countermeasures.
-- Should not be able to be knocked over by ARM's and PRM's.

Jets.
-- Should be able to take maximum 3 ARM's before blowing up.
-- Should also have a shorter cool down time on the countermeasures.

Main Base / Uncap Base.
-- The MAA should not be able to hide in the main base in cover of the SAA.
-- The SAA should be able to shoot down ARM's.


Acronym's
-- MAA = Mobile Anti Air.
-- SAA = Stationary Anti Air.
-- ARM = Active Radar Missiles.
-- PRM = Passive Radar Missiles.

***************************************************************************************************************************************************

Other posts addressing this or similar issue/problem.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065670137325536/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065670129631835/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064767227001363/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065670135565428/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064767236680604/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065670127982959/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065218726010158/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065218816237514/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065219907176264/ [battlelog.battlefield.com]

(Please keep the post on topic and keep a respectful tone to the devs and to those who post in this thread so this issue can be taken serious.)
Mind over matter... Because i dont mind that you dont matter! | System : http://valid.canardpc.com/y2q610
V3rmillioncore
DE Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2013-11-06 17:27
Chopper pilots find anything annoying that could take them down. But yes, they should reload much slower. The AA should be at least forced to use its main gun because that takes at least a bit of aim.
Lupus pilum mutat, non mores
scruffycavetroll
US Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2013-11-06 17:29
they are....i'm not the best chopper pilot, but I do enjoy it. Those things pretty much make the chopper useless. infinite range, no lock-on tone, totally screwed up.
MotherBase_Kaz
BR Enlisted: 2012-01-25
2013-11-06 17:29
but jets also have this, so you are saying only nerf them for MAA?
What will be, will be.
NemisizZ-DK
DK Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 17:30
Protoman_BETA said:
but jets also have this, so you are saying only nerf them for MAA?


In general, not only for MAA, but all vehicles that got these "Active Radar" heatseekers. =)
Mind over matter... Because i dont mind that you dont matter! | System : http://valid.canardpc.com/y2q610
HootieMcBoo8
US Enlisted: 2011-11-06
2013-11-06 17:36 , edited 2013-11-06 17:45 by HootieMcBoo8
Chopper pilots don't pilot the chopper anymore.

Dice has successfully made it impossible to fly and have any fun with it. Hovercamping and spamming TV missile is the ONLY effective tactic the heli can use.

Dice doesn't understand that buffing infantry lockons and Nerfing countermeasures only serves to encourage this shit gameplay tactic... Countermeasures need to be powerful so that tankers, RPG snipers, and sraw pros can get ther deserved kills.

In BF4, any weapon that takes skill to hit with isn't rewarded, while lockon garbage gameplay is. It's sad really. Just look at RPG vs HVM II... Manual aimed rocket = 80 damage disable. Lockon HVM II = one hit kill.

Except now active radar missiles render that tactic moot... So there is really no effective way to fly the heli. Active radar missiles need to do like 15 damage with no disable.
SYM-DomLumen
US Enlisted: 2012-11-26
2013-11-06 17:39
I agree active radar missles take even less skill to use than regular heatseekers instead of point and shoot its just shoot
Argue with me. It amuses me.
NemisizZ-DK
DK Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 17:45 , edited 2013-11-06 17:45 by NemisizZ-DK
-dG-Dom_LuMen said:
I agree active radar missles take even less skill to use than regular heatseekers instead of point and shoot its just shoot


Yeah, they are way to easy to use, and as you say, its just shoot... or at least if shooting in the general direction of the chopper or jet and it will hit and disable the vehicle.
Mind over matter... Because i dont mind that you dont matter! | System : http://valid.canardpc.com/y2q610
gibonez
US Enlisted: 2013-02-27
2013-11-06 17:47
AA tank does not need any lock on missiles. They should remove them and focus on buffing its main gun.

AA tank is a powerhouse in real life at taking out helos but not jets.
Help add Battle Recorder/Theater mode to BF4. View the video in the link and sign the petition http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/dice-ea-please-add-battlerecorder-to-battlefield-4
Noodlesocks
Enlisted: 2011-10-28
2013-11-06 17:48
The tracking radius should be reduced significantly.
AleloAT
AT Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 17:57
i can only /sign this - they are way too op- only survived them once by luck - cause i knew he had active radar so i used the ECM as fast as possible and flew as fast as possible away around buildings - they take no skill, do way too much damage - just like the MBT LAW
Striterax
SE Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2013-11-06 18:06
This is a really interesting topic guys and I love to read your feedback.

There are some things to consider here: Is the Mobile AA OP relative to 1 chopper? Most definitely

But is it OP in relative to a 64 player game where you have 2 jets, 1 attack chopper, 1 scout chopper and 1 transport chopper to take care of? I not that sure anymore. In a very even game where you have equally skilled jet and chopper pilots, I dont think the question is relevant? But in a situation where a team has very skilled pilots and the opposing teams don't, that is when the mobile AA shines.

That is how my logic goes, might be flawed but would love to hear your opinions on this :)-

Striterax
TNBcrAnk
DE Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 18:09
On Zavod i kill every Chopper on the way up in the air just after the start. The active radar rockets are too strong because they disable the chopper after two rockets.
gibonez
US Enlisted: 2013-02-27
2013-11-06 18:10
The AA tank by itself might not be op.

However when you combine it with the fact that nearly every vehicle has an anti air lock on missile , infantry has 2 lock on missiles + a long reload time for flares you have situations where you are in the air for no longer than 20 seconds rendering the vehicles useless.
Help add Battle Recorder/Theater mode to BF4. View the video in the link and sign the petition http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/dice-ea-please-add-battlerecorder-to-battlefield-4
NemisizZ-DK
DK Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 18:27
Striterax said:
This is a really interesting topic guys and I love to read your feedback.

There are some things to consider here: Is the Mobile AA OP relative to 1 chopper? Most definitely

But is it OP in relative to a 64 player game where you have 2 jets, 1 attack chopper, 1 scout chopper and 1 transport chopper to take care of? I not that sure anymore. In a very even game where you have equally skilled jet and chopper pilots, I dont think the question is relevant? But in a situation where a team has very skilled pilots and the opposing teams don't, that is when the mobile AA shines.

That is how my logic goes, might be flawed but would love to hear your opinions on this :)-

Striterax


Take a map like Paracel Storm where there only is 1 MAA and you park it next to the crashed ship that also got AA, then they cant get close to you, even if they had all the air attacking at once, its just to easy to shoot the active radar missiles, you just have to point in the general direction and then fire them and its a 100% hit, you get 8 active radar missiles you can fire fast if i remember right before it have to do a long reload, that's 4 air vehicles you can take down really fast, and keep in mind that the MAA also have countermeasures, which will keep them from hitting it, and while reloading you have the main gun which just rips them apart if they are to close.

Again, its just my opinion, personally i think its the Active Radar missiles that's the problem, without them the MAA would have to lock on where the pilot would get a warning and would be able to evade and or use countermeasures. =)
Mind over matter... Because i dont mind that you dont matter! | System : http://valid.canardpc.com/y2q610
Kudaku
NO Enlisted: 2011-10-26
2013-11-06 18:37
Even in a 1-on-1 the helicopter has the benefit of simply being able to move on - on a large map the increased mobility means that the helicopter can simply avoid the MAA. Not a perfect strategy (since you need to be aware of where the MAA is in the first place), but it is definitely viable. Improvise, adapt and overcome.
NemesisVS
DE Enlisted: 2011-10-29
2013-11-06 18:44
In my opinion, the entire AA weaponry we have in game relies way too much on fire and forget weapons. Playing both aircraft and AA, I think taking down planes and choppers should be done mainly with MGs/cannons and not missiles. I know it's not very realsitic but I think it would be more balanced (sure keep the missiles, but increase the reload time and increase the main gun's damage?)
NemisizZ-DK
DK Enlisted: 2011-10-24
2013-11-06 18:50
Kudaku said:
Even in a 1-on-1 the helicopter has the benefit of simply being able to move on - on a large map the increased mobility means that the helicopter can simply avoid the MAA. Not a perfect strategy (since you need to be aware of where the MAA is in the first place), but it is definitely viable. Improvise, adapt and overcome.


Non of the choppers i engaged had a chance of evading, if you make them come close enough to you then they stand no chance,.
First you fire the first set of ARM's, then swap to the main gun and to damage them, when they are trying to evade you shoot the second set of ARM's which will take the chopper down.

You don't even need to lock these missiles, its just predict the direction they will go in and then fire them and then they do the rest of the work for you...

But of cause avoiding the MAA is a way not to get shot down, but as you say, its about knowing where it is in the first place, and on Paracel Storm you can almost cover the entire map if you park it the right place... You can cover at least 4 flags on Conquest Large.

And if the enemy team isn't well organized and don't focus on it with their infantry or boats, then its just a death machine.
Mind over matter... Because i dont mind that you dont matter! | System : http://valid.canardpc.com/y2q610
NeuVision
US Enlisted: 2013-01-18
2013-11-06 18:58
I always find it a challenge to take down AA. Its something else when teams don't work together to bring down AA or other high threats.
Juicy__vK
US Enlisted: 2011-10-30
2013-11-06 19:00
Striterax said:
This is a really interesting topic guys and I love to read your feedback.

There are some things to consider here: Is the Mobile AA OP relative to 1 chopper? Most definitely

But is it OP in relative to a 64 player game where you have 2 jets, 1 attack chopper, 1 scout chopper and 1 transport chopper to take care of? I not that sure anymore. In a very even game where you have equally skilled jet and chopper pilots, I dont think the question is relevant? But in a situation where a team has very skilled pilots and the opposing teams don't, that is when the mobile AA shines.

That is how my logic goes, might be flawed but would love to hear your opinions on this :)-

Striterax

Make it so you can use countermeasures.
Lol
 
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