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The C4/Breaching Charge Discussion

Shleebz_ic66q1s
NZ Enlisted: 2014-09-07
2014-12-16 02:35 , edited 2014-12-16 02:36 by Shleebz_ic66q1s
I suggest 5 classes:

Operator:
Does the primary attacking
-ARs/Carbines
-Ammo box
-Motion sensor

Enforcer:
Blows stuff up
-Battle rifles
-C4
-M320

Mechanic
Repairs and helps
-PDWs
-Repair tool
-Gadget box
-Ballistic shield

Medic
Heals and revives
-Shotguns
-Med bag
-Revive

Professional
provides long range offense/defense
-Snipers/DMRs
-Trip mine
-Camera
-Spawn Beacon
CLASS_Man222
Enlisted: 2014-02-08
2014-12-16 03:48
dirtydeathdog said:
Hi everyone,

Sorry it's taken me a while to comment, as you can imagine we're pretty busy! :)

Let me fuel the discussion some more. Here’s the list of the classes, their current loadouts, and our thoughts behind them. (Note this doesn’t take into account any global gadgets, melee, or grenades.)

OPERATOR - Role: Primary Gunfighter and Medic
• First Aid Pack...Heal teammates
• Survivalist...Revive yourself after an explosive kill
• Revive...Revive teammates

This class is powerful, but balanced now. The Operator’s extensive selection of carbines and assault rifles gives him a wide engagement range and the medical function of the class is very important for teamwork. However, his limited number of gadgets makes him a little bit more accessible to new players and also limits his flexibility, meaning other classes are needed to support him.


MECHANIC - Role: Gadgets and Vehicles
• 40mm GL...Destroy vehicles
• Repair Tool...Repair vehicles, disarm explosive traps
• Sabotage...Trap vehicles and objectives
• Armored Insert...Survive a sniper shot to the chest
• Sat Phone...Place a spawn point for your teammates

The Mechanic started off as a pure vehicle-based role, but vehicles are somewhat less prominent in Hardline, so it evolved over time. Where it is right now is a pretty sweet spot. Being the “gadget guy” means he gets an eclectic collection of useful toys, but he still retains his importance in vehicle-based maps and modes. A great complement to the Operator, as his close-range SMGs can destroy nearby enemies effectively.


ENFORCER – Role: Support
• Ammo Bag...Resupply teammates
• Breaching Charge....Destroy walls & vehicles, set traps at objectives
• Riot Shield...Defend yourself and teammates

The Enforcer is still a bad-ass. Capable close range shotguns and long range battle rifles, along with the ability to provide ammunition to teammates and shield them from damage are powerful abilities. In addition, he’s got the every-popular Breaching Charge which allows him some tactical flexibility and brings a great deal of appeal to the class.


PROFESSIONAL – Role: Traps and Intel
• Laser Tripmine...Lay traps for agents
• Camera...Spots approaching enemies
• Decoy...Deceives enemies
• Stealth Training...Reduce enemy awareness of your movements

The hard-hitting DMRs and SRs the professional has can be used to secure an objective from a distance, while his rapid-fire sidearm can be used close-in. The camera and LTMs can help the pro survive being flanked and ambushed, and can be used tactically to defend objectives to assist his team. In addition, stealth training lets the pro get up close and personal, getting the drop on unsuspecting enemies.


I'm loving it how u guys are engaging in our discussions! I'm really excited for bf hardline and I think u guys will have a successful launch because of all the feedback we've been giving u guys and the problems your taking from past battlefields and fixing them. Keep it up!
colers25
BE Enlisted: 2013-12-01
2014-12-16 16:36
dirtydeathdog said:
Hi everyone,

Sorry it's taken me a while to comment, as you can imagine we're pretty busy! :)

Let me fuel the discussion some more. Here’s the list of the classes, their current loadouts, and our thoughts behind them. (Note this doesn’t take into account any global gadgets, melee, or grenades.)

OPERATOR - Role: Primary Gunfighter and Medic
• First Aid Pack...Heal teammates
• Survivalist...Revive yourself after an explosive kill
• Revive...Revive teammates

This class is powerful, but balanced now. The Operator’s extensive selection of carbines and assault rifles gives him a wide engagement range and the medical function of the class is very important for teamwork. However, his limited number of gadgets makes him a little bit more accessible to new players and also limits his flexibility, meaning other classes are needed to support him.


MECHANIC - Role: Gadgets and Vehicles
• 40mm GL...Destroy vehicles
• Repair Tool...Repair vehicles, disarm explosive traps
• Sabotage...Trap vehicles and objectives
• Armored Insert...Survive a sniper shot to the chest
• Sat Phone...Place a spawn point for your teammates

The Mechanic started off as a pure vehicle-based role, but vehicles are somewhat less prominent in Hardline, so it evolved over time. Where it is right now is a pretty sweet spot. Being the “gadget guy” means he gets an eclectic collection of useful toys, but he still retains his importance in vehicle-based maps and modes. A great complement to the Operator, as his close-range SMGs can destroy nearby enemies effectively.


ENFORCER – Role: Support
• Ammo Bag...Resupply teammates
• Breaching Charge....Destroy walls & vehicles, set traps at objectives
• Riot Shield...Defend yourself and teammates

The Enforcer is still a bad-ass. Capable close range shotguns and long range battle rifles, along with the ability to provide ammunition to teammates and shield them from damage are powerful abilities. In addition, he’s got the every-popular Breaching Charge which allows him some tactical flexibility and brings a great deal of appeal to the class.


PROFESSIONAL – Role: Traps and Intel
• Laser Tripmine...Lay traps for agents
• Camera...Spots approaching enemies
• Decoy...Deceives enemies
• Stealth Training...Reduce enemy awareness of your movements

The hard-hitting DMRs and SRs the professional has can be used to secure an objective from a distance, while his rapid-fire sidearm can be used close-in. The camera and LTMs can help the pro survive being flanked and ambushed, and can be used tactically to defend objectives to assist his team. In addition, stealth training lets the pro get up close and personal, getting the drop on unsuspecting enemies.


So, just for confirmation (this is all using the Levelcap's vids as a source):


Armored insert is no longer class wide, which means that aggro sniping isn't quite as RIP as it was in BF4; it would even be rare in TDM though it would give the mechanic some TDM capabilities.

Sat phone is no longer for the operator, but for the mechanic. It might be bad or good that its not for the pro; it would encourage camping and static sniping.

Survivalist is no longer class wide, nor is decoy. the later one might be a bad choice; this would TRULY give the operator a small kit. it would almost exterminate variation. nor do i really see the need for a pro to have a decoy.


I truly, truly hope that armored insert won't reach the same epidemic levels of the defensive perk; i like my aggro sniping
Muh hardline DLC suggestions: ((BF3 and 4 remake, including Strike at karkand:)------------------------------------------------------------------------------http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372590497/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------((Russian themed:)http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372150423/)----------------------------------------------- ((prototype themed:)http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372758914/ )---------------------------------------------------((Urban combat:)http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065240177456078/)--------------------------------------------------((Prohibition themed:http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372995241/))
zanypanda1234567
US Enlisted: 2014-01-24
2014-12-17 20:11
I think the new roster deathdog posted is great though the one gripe I would have I'd have is to switch the armored insert with breaching charge or just move the insert. I think the insert would synergies well with the enforcer roll because he is meant to be the tank type character. If visceral is willing to go for two classes with breaching charge it could work with the professional with the stealth item (I forget the name) cause it would allow you to sneak up on vehicles or I know this tactic is looked down upon but put a camera on an objective laced with breaching charges and detonate when somebody approaches. Could also encourage aggressive professionals with stealth item as they would not be detected. Just some thoughts the game looks great so far
syf-CryptiK
AU Enlisted: 2011-10-25
2014-12-18 08:01
zanypanda1234567 said:
I think the new roster deathdog posted is great though the one gripe I would have I'd have is to switch the armored insert with breaching charge or just move the insert. I think the insert would synergies well with the enforcer roll because he is meant to be the tank type character. If visceral is willing to go for two classes with breaching charge it could work with the professional with the stealth item (I forget the name) cause it would allow you to sneak up on vehicles or I know this tactic is looked down upon but put a camera on an objective laced with breaching charges and detonate when somebody approaches. Could also encourage aggressive professionals with stealth item as they would not be detected. Just some thoughts the game looks great so far
C4 on two classes was one of the biggest balance mistakes with the modern Battlefields. Lets not repeat that. I also like the armored insert for enforcer atm the mechanic has way too many gadgets.
Support_By_Fire
US Enlisted: 2011-10-28
2014-12-19 12:04
So I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. If we're getting so upset about the C4...why not just make C4 primarily to take out vehicles and to blow holes through walls to create entrances or exits? And make it less deadly against infantry to stop C4 spamming. Give it just the mechanic or whoever we decide to give it to and let them be the ones that take out vehicles or give it to the class that will be blowing holes through buildings and give the mechanic a non explosive way to take down vehicles. I just get tired of seeing all of these explosions in urban environments when this is a cops vs. criminals game. I would actually be in favor of seeing the criminals with explosives and seeing the police with gadgets or other weapons that counter their explosives.
Expect Only Death
AGKryptex
US Enlisted: 2011-11-03
2014-12-22 07:11
This post has been hidden by the Battlelog administrators.
If ya smeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeleleleleleleleleleleleleleleleLAOOOOOO. *looks in every possible direction* What Y2J... Is Cookin'!
colers25
BE Enlisted: 2013-12-01
2014-12-22 21:41
AGKryptex said:
The only way to make C4 a complete non-issue IMO would be to severely reduce the amount of damage it does to vehicles. This would be alot easier to play straight in Hardline because a typical breaching charge wouldn't be doing much more damage than a grenade, and is much more controlled to blasting directly away from the planter.

In short, I believe it should take just over the limited amount of charges you can carry.


You gotta be joking, right?

C4 traps would be glorious in BFH
Muh hardline DLC suggestions: ((BF3 and 4 remake, including Strike at karkand:)------------------------------------------------------------------------------http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372590497/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------((Russian themed:)http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372150423/)----------------------------------------------- ((prototype themed:)http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372758914/ )---------------------------------------------------((Urban combat:)http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955065240177456078/)--------------------------------------------------((Prohibition themed:http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2955064789372995241/))
Zexis_RD
AU Enlisted: 2014-06-14
2015-02-14 02:12
I simply think the C4eaching Charges demotivate certain gametypes. As the Hotwire gamemode in the 2015 Beta; a single charge would destroy any of the objectives ( save for the Fuel Rig, but the boom it creates when it does go, well, boom is immense ). When I heard of Hotwire, I hoped it would be a gun battle - Racing through downtown, car vs car with a flurry of bullets in the wind. Not an Enforcer camping a high rise tossing charges on the road and watching the letter "B" roll over his explosive icons. Getting 4 kills on a group full of teammates who are actually playing as a team, that easily?

I can tell you I abused the hell out of the beta breaching Charges; It was the easiest way to get 20 kills a game and constantly deprive the enemy of an objective. Not once did I say to myself "Oh this C4 isn't powerful enough, I better go engineer to use that M320". (that being said, M320's also seemed to undermine the action packed nature of the car chase)

While the charges probably don't deserve to disappear from the game, I'd prefer a change to make them more of their namesake - Breaching charges. Not, 120mm tank shell with a remote. Have them do a lot of damage on the object they're placed on, to take down walls and doors and such. but make their splash lighter to compensate for the fact that the charge is directed at a single object.

I've never seen a cop pull out a stick of C4 to get into a room. Think of the practical gadgets law enforcement use in real life! Collateral damage people! That's why we give them tasers and rubber-ball grenades. Not LAW 80s and TNT.
Rikakiah
Enlisted: 2012-10-24
2015-02-17 16:58
C4 does get annoyingly spammed in Hot Wired. There was always at least one in each game I played.

I kind of like the idea of making an ammo resupply and gadget resupply separately. However, the grenade launcher is the 2nd most useful thing to a Mechanic in Hot Wired. SMGs are severely outclassed by Operators in that game because distances increase so quickly. Not complaining, as it's a balance to the class--just saying the grenade launcher helps alleviate this. I'd be remiss to lose that in favor of a gadget resupply, but I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world.

In my opinion, c4 spam is only really an annoyance in Hot Wired because the cars have to move at such a rate that drivers can't identify or avoid some choke points. In other modes, you can more easily identify which areas may be trouble, but in Hot Wired, it's pretty much any section of roadway. Here's another option. Make a vehicle upgrade that reduces explosive damage (perhaps only breaching charge damage, such as armored floor plating). That way, breaching charge spammers wouldn't have such a steady supply (they'd have to use more of their supply per kill) in Hot Wired, but wouldn't be affected in other modes where spamming c4 doesn't make as much a difference.

Unrelated, I initially thought I liked the idea of giving Professionals the Sat Phone (their gadgets feel a bit lackluster). However, then I remembered all the rooftop snipers and giving them an infinite respawn to their hard to reach perches would get annoying fast.
klayton88
GB Enlisted: 2011-10-27
2015-02-28 05:17
So whiners are basically asking for C4 to be toned down. To the point it takes 3 to destroy a car? 1 would wreck a car in real life, so even as it is now with 2 you should be thankful.

While your taking the power away from c4 lets make the melee weapons less sharp so you have to knife twice, lets fill the frags with sponge and the tear gas with a lovely aroma of paco rabanne 1 million.
Zexis_RD
AU Enlisted: 2014-06-14
2015-03-14 04:12
What part of Battlefield mimics realism? I don't recall the NYPD having RPG's in their cruisers, nor do criminals have 50'cals on Transports.
We're talking about game balance. GAME.

Again, let's use Hotwired as our example. Battlefield is meant to promote teamwork, and teamwork in hotwired means multiple players are in a single objective vehicle, or in multiple vehicles in close proximity. Now, when the other team actually musters up some strategy and works together, the counter should be for your team to do the same. Instead, we have a lone enforcer on top of a high-rise tossing Breaching charges onto the road, netting himself 4 easy kills. There's no teamwork in that. That's one player sitting in the same position all game, easily disrupting a group of teammates who are actually trying to work together.

It's not whining if it's logical. Battlefield is meant to be a team game. If you want to destroy a fully packed sedan objective in Hotwired, you should need to work as a team.
 
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